Huawei Ascend D/ Hisilicon K3V2 - Quadcore with 16-core graphics

Discussion in 'Mobile Devices and SoCs' started by AnarchX, Feb 29, 2012.

  1. Lazy8s

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,100
    Likes Received:
    18
    Maybe Vivante, like a GC4000+ or a GC5000, or perhaps internal HiSilicon IP?
     
  2. tangey

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    200
    Location:
    0x5FF6BC
    video interview with the designer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrBTxO4cgKg&feature=player_embedded

    the interviewer shows himself up, "so when you say 64-bit memory, is that the memory bandwidth ?". huh ?

    Unsure exactly what the guy says at times, but in regards to GPU says something about the technology coming from SGI plus another US company ?

    He says its not vivante, not powerVr and not Mali
     
  3. Mariner

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    237
    Is it Rampage? :p
     
  4. Ailuros

    Ailuros Epsilon plus three
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    9,418
    Likes Received:
    178
    Location:
    Chania
    Since NVIDIA counts ALU lanes as "cores", there's nothing that speaks against someone else using that kind of marketing crap.
     
  5. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,853
    Likes Received:
    4,463
    Where did I read an article stating that there were lots of people quitting Qualcomm's Adreno division to form a graphics IP startup?

    Is it too soon for that?
     
  6. tangey

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    200
    Location:
    0x5FF6BC
  7. Ailuros

    Ailuros Epsilon plus three
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    9,418
    Likes Received:
    178
    Location:
    Chania
  8. benjiro

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Some benchmarks from the Ascend showing up it seems:

    http://phandroid.com/2012/03/16/doe...-xl-have-the-fastest-processor-on-the-market/

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...benchmarked2c-leaves-competition-in-dust.aspx

    Impressive results. Let me guess, dual channel memory controller?

    Update:

    Take in account, that these benchmarks seem to be from the 1.2Ghz Quad Core Ascend D Quad XL ( = The Smartphone version ). There is also a 1.5Ghz version.

    They are still advertising 64 bit memory on the website. I'm assuming that its really just dual channel 2 * 32bit. A bit of confusing marketing never hurt anybody ( Apple anybody? ).

    http://www.huaweidevice.com/worldwi...nfoId=3265&directoryId=6001&treeId=3745&tab=0
     
    #9 benjiro, Mar 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2012
  9. french toast

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,667
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Leicestershire - England
    Holly shit that IS impressive stuff, what the hell have they got under the sheets?? Mali t604?? thats ridiculous....
     
  10. benjiro

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Basemark ES2: +- 105% faster then the Tegra3.

    Nemamark2:

    Nemamark2 seems to have a 26% improvement compared to the Tegra3. Based on those screenshots.

    http://nena.se/nenamark/view?version=2&device_id=1563

    There are about 10 test run showing the same results. With about 7 seem to be from different testers ( submitters )?

    Now, those Tegra 3 results are indeed strange:

    K3V2: 45.90(min) 62.75(avg) 67.30(max) Results: 177 Display: 1280x720
    T3: 33.70(min) 49.38(avg) 58.70(max) Results: 535 Display: 1280x752

    Looking at the submitters, we see that 7/10 of those results, seem to be from a 1.6Ghz Tegra3's. But they are actually slower results, then the 1.4Ghz versions, running on the older Android version. Only the 1.6Ghz Tegra3's are running on Android 4.0.3.

    Take in account, that the Tegra has a little bit more pixel to render.

    http://nena.se/nenamark/view?version=2&device_id=1098

    Also interesting TF700K ( Transformer Prime with the MSM8960 ):

    http://nena.se/nenamark/view?version=2&device_id=1341
    http://nena.se/nenamark/view?version=2&device_id=1569

    38 for the Transformer Prime 700 with the 1920x1128 display with the Adreno 225 and MSM8960. What is surprising. The screen resolution is much higher, but still. I expected more with the "beefed" up CPU, that everybody was raving about. Looks like it really needs a Adreno 320. Then again, the MSM8960 is cheating with 28nm, while all the others are with 40nm. They can probably enhance the performance also with a Tegra / K3V2 on 28nm, to close the gap.

    28nm?

    You do notice a problem with 28nm. Apple A5X is 45nm, Tegra 3 is 40nm, K3V2 is 40nm, only the MSM8960 is at 28nm. A bit strange ...

    Well, until you read something like this:
    TSMC suddenly halts 28nm production

    http://semiaccurate.com/2012/03/07/tsmc-suddenly-halts-28nm-production/

    Might explain as to why everybody is staying at 45/40nm...

    Conclusion:

    Well, for there own design, Huawei did seem to have a good performer in t here hands. It looks to be surprised in the future with the Adreno320/Krait, but if the can value it at a good ( = not to expensive ) price, i think they can have a good system seller on there hands.
     
  11. Arun

    Arun Unknown.
    Moderator Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Messages:
    5,023
    Likes Received:
    299
    Location:
    UK
    I'm pretty sure it's Vivante based on a video where HiSilicon bragged about the SGI heritage of the GPU IP's team (which is one of Vivante's marketing points). I'm not sure what core and what frequency but I suspect a good part of the unusually high performance (for a Vivante core) might be related to the very high level of memory bandwidth as that is clearly Vivante's weak point.

    And while having that memory bandwidth available does help performance, using so much of it is obviously going to waste a lot of power compared to more bandwidth efficient architectures... And it might also reduce the performance benefit of higher performance cores as you'd just be constrained by bandwidth so much of the time.

    Still, if it is Vivante, congrats to them for finally being part of a high-end smartphone and I'm looking forward to analysing the next-gen Freescale stuff once that's available! :)
     
  12. french toast

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,667
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Leicestershire - England
    Yea i get where your coming from the results are a little strange..you would think the faster Tegra's would at least have parity...

    Well what no one has mentioned is maybe mali 400mp4 @ 400mhz?? that could hit that mark could it not?..that and 4 A9's@1.5 with say 2mb L2 cache...duel channel controller..lpddr2 1066...after all the chip set is also smoking all the other benchmarks including Antutu...so its got to be more than just a powerfull gpu..

    Does anyone have glbenchmark results?

    I have to say, im a bit bemused by Krait performnce as well, if you take Anands tests, which on an MDP is always going to be optimistic...they arn't that impressive out side of linpack..and Medfield actually beats it in sunspider..(if you take the results as face value.)..if you level the clocks..the A9's wouldn't be that far off either...
    Anand says that it was consuming 750mw @1.5ghz PER CORE....that seems a lot considering 28nm, new uarch and the performance comparison..could it be a dodgy process that 28nm?

    Everywhere is advertising that Adreno 320 is now 4x Adreno 225..instead of only 190% which was floating around before on the other thread...that seems more like it and that would destroy A5X with some good bandwidth (which as IMR instead of TBDR its gonna need)

    EDIT; i have those Antutu results http://antutulabs.com/Ranking
    There is definately something memory wise going on as well.
     
    #13 french toast, Mar 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2012
  13. 3dcgi

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,435
    Likes Received:
    263
    That's a strange thing to market considering multiple competitors could say the same thing.
     
  14. benjiro

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have seen the Mali400 showing up in different Chinese "Clone" tablets. Seems when they advertise that there SOC has a strong GPU, its almost always the Mali400 ( Single Core ). So, it is a possibility.

    But i think Arun may be right with the Vivante. Mostly this information is not picked up by most western sites, but when you look around on the Asian, it seems to show up plenty of times the reference to GPU Vivante GC4000 ( this seems to be like a SGX543MP4 )?

    With there 16 core GPU, they are probably talking about a 4 core, with each core being 4 shaders or something? Who knows ... But i'm fairly sure that its not really 16 "CORE", just marketing.

    Those results are strange. Based upon this, the K3V2 is doing 11789 ( 4th place ). Now, excluding those overclocked Tegra3's ( Rank one, and two ), you have a TF700T what seems to be the Krait version ( 1.5Ghz ) ranking third?

    Something overlooked by people?

    Tegra3 @ 40nm: 80mm² ( reported )
    K3V2 @ 40nm: 12 mm x 12 mm = 144 mm² package? size
    Apple A5 @ 45nm: 10.01 mm x 11.92 mm = 119.32 mm²
    Apple A5X @ 45nm: 12.82 mm x 12.71 mm = 162.94 mm²

    Also take in account, that the K3V2 has NOT the 5th energy saving CPU core. According to Huawei they designed it "properly" to save energy. What means LP for the entire SOC instead of Tegra3 being a hybrid with only the energy saving 5th core being LP. That fits with there claim that it can offer 30% more power saving.

    Now, my point is, 5th core is missing, why is the reported package size, so much bigger then the Tegra3? It has 2 * 32bit memory structure, what takes more area then the Tegra3's single memory structure. Until you look at Apple there A5X. What is the biggest part of the SOC => that SGX543MP4, in other words, it again increases the change for the K3V2 being a multi "core" GPU design ( dual or quad ).

    Another bold claim. We have seen the GPU performing much better then the Tegra3 ( not that hard to do ), but this claims a almost 250% increase in speed. That puts it in the theoretical speed that the A5X claims compared to the Tegra3.

    To be honest, the K3V2 is what starting to look, what the Apple A5x needed to have been.
     
  15. silent_guy

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,754
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    I've heard the term 'The University of SGI'. :wink:
     
  16. french toast

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,667
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Leicestershire - England
    Well firstly there has to be some funky marketing going on as they are sure as hell refer to ALU's/shaders..not full GPU cores with TMU's/rasterizers etc..
    Even if it is a proper quad GPU like A5X or even a 'compromised' 'quad' like T604..the results whilst being great aren't that great..unless they have used a low clocked variant to keep power consumption down?.:???:

    How do we know for sure that A5X is 45nm? thought it was assumed to be on Sammy's 32nm process?
    Ditto with the K3V2 how do we know the manufacturing tech?

    The '16' core is puzzling..the results on Antutu are also very high, bested only by super overclocked Tegra 3 tablets....could all that die space be in fact some L2 cache with some AMBA 4 like cache coherency??:???:

    EDIT; Well my thinking is if you are going to have 4 Cortex A9's @1.5ghz..on 40nm..with no companion core..and powerfull graphics....that is going to blast through some battery...if not it puts more credence to my 'multi core' views..

    EDIT 2; Well i have found a mention of Vivante GC4000 on nenamark getting 60.1fps... from an Android reference handset..
    http://androidtabletupdate.com/tag/vivante-gc4000/

    Thats certainly with in range to be a contender....

    EDIT 3; Found some sketchy info about the Vivante GC4000.. http://www.globenewswire.com/newsroom/news.html?d=209307
     
    #17 french toast, Mar 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2012
  17. Exophase

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,406
    Likes Received:
    429
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    Package size isn't die size. The former can be much, much larger than the latter. See Tegra 2 and Tegra 3:

    http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-superchip.html

    Which are available on either 12x12mm or 23x23mm (yes, that's right) packages. Larger packages only have a minor impact on production cost vs larger die sizes, and can reduce assembly costs. I'm sure it pays in general to use standard dimensions, even if the pin count and layout probably isn't going to be standard.

    A lot of performance claims made here seem suspicious. The Nenamark scores look like the usual vsync vs non-vsync marketing trick. GLBench offscreen really needs to be used for this, and I'm sure they know that and chose not to present those scores.
     
  18. Lazy8s

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,100
    Likes Received:
    18
    The workloads of some of these benchmarks and the variability of some of the comparative scores prevents me from buying some of the performance claims here.

    HiSilicon says the texel fill is 1.3 billion per second and presumably IMR (especially with all of the SGI name dropping), so this SoC wouldn't have made for a better A5X to drive the new iPad display.

    Some of the other theoretical performance figures sound nice, though.
     
  19. Lazy8s

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,100
    Likes Received:
    18
    An unrelated note: Rockchip is now apparently using Mali instead of Vivante.
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Huawei Ascend Hisilicon
  1. Picao84
    Replies:
    11
    Views:
    1,494
  2. Rys
    Replies:
    16
    Views:
    2,580

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...