So PS3's GPU/VPU will have performance of 250Gflop? Didn't Vince say that nv30 has an aggregate fp computing power of 250Gflop? And are you sure the T&L won't be performed by the BB Engine for PS3, just like T&L is done by the EE for PS2? Sounds like Nvidia won't have too much difficulty designing a GPU for Xbox2. That leaves Intel to design a CPU capable of 1Tflop, something that sounds like an impossibility for Intel to do.
HOw will MS counter the "1TFlop" PS3?
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randycat99
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jvd said:
Essentially, you would be no better off than you are today with a CPU sipping to main memory. The whole point of local, on-die memory is that nothing off-die beats it. It can't get any more "local". That is much of the reason you get the peak/sustained performance issue in the "conventional" setup. Once you blow out the data in the L2 cache, you are essentially fighting latencies, throughput, and mere clock cycles of the main memory system to get data. On a 3 GHz CPU, that is all the more pertinent.
It's all down to "maybe" then, isn't it?
Im pretty sure Intel could have matched Sony if they wanted to, but it is not profitable for them ... probably not even if m$ had promised to purchase the processor and had bankrolled coverage of the liabilities.
AMD on the other hand would probably have been happy to cooperate ... water under the bridge though.
AMD on the other hand would probably have been happy to cooperate ... water under the bridge though.
randycat99 said:jvd said:
Essentially, you would be no better off than you are today with a CPU sipping to main memory. The whole point of local, on-die memory is that nothing off-die beats it. It can't get any more "local". That is much of the reason you get the peak/sustained performance issue in the "conventional" setup. Once you blow out the data in the L2 cache, you are essentially fighting latencies, throughput, and mere clock cycles of the main memory system to get data. On a 3 GHz CPU, that is all the more pertinent.
It's all down to "maybe" then, isn't it?
True. I'm sure a 3ghz chip would love to have a meg or two of cache on it. Who's to say that will or wont happen. Just because intel and amd sell the chips for thousands of dollars (i should just say intel) doesn't mean they can't sell one for dirt cheap to ms. Esp if ms gives them some incentives. Like mfa says i'm sure that amd would love to make a chip for the xbox 2. And i'm sure that the amount of chips ms will want will drive the costs down to a few dollars over the price of the chip Not only that but amd will benifit alot for a chip deal with ms
randycat99
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Like nVidia is about their XBox GPU contribution?
My guess is if MS asks AMD for a server level CPU chip for pennies, they will just get laughed at.
My guess is if MS asks AMD for a server level CPU chip for pennies, they will just get laughed at.
randycat99
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Of course not! It wouldn't be the Xbox design philosophy, anyway.
randycat99 said:Like nVidia is about their XBox GPU contribution?
My guess is if MS asks AMD for a server level CPU chip for pennies, they will just get laughed at.
Ms has alot to offer. Moving all of ms computers over to amd chips (what microsoft workers use) Tweaking windows more for its hammer chips.. Putting more of a push for the 64bit windows. Entering a joint research project for the chip whill ms pumps in lots of money for amds r&r. I'm sure amd would love both of these as it would help them compete against intel who has a bigger budget. I'm sure amd wouldn't mind making only a dollar or 2 on the x box chips. I'm also sure that if ms wanted to put in 512-1gig of system ram they can find samsung and buy a few million units of the ram for dirt cheap.
Oh and randy yes on die cache is better. BUt even in 2005 onboard ram is going to cost a arm and a leg esp 64 megs. How much system ram will it have. I'm sure ms can get an amd chip with a meg or more of cache and then load up the system with another gig of ram if need be. I'm sure having 512 megs of ram for fsaa and textures would be really nice. Love to see 6xfsaa or 8fsaa on an xbox 2. Make tv look really nice esp at tv res. Also the xbox 2 cpu will most likely just be doing ai and physics so even a 3ghz normal hammer chip would be enough for that . Its the gpu we need to be worried about. If they go with a chip like the r300 and give it a 256 bit bus or if rumors are true and the r400 has a 512 bit bus coupled with a lot of ram and they are in heaven. Or what if the r400 or 500 has on die cache , like 4-8 megs plus its external ram on a fast bus.
I think the ps3 will be a good system and will do great things. But i believe the other two consoles will be jsut as good or depending on when they come out better .
jvd said:To sum up this thread ms will respond to the 1 tflop ps3 by making the xbox 1.1tflops.
at the end it will all come down to design *phylosophies*.
and depending on when they come out one WILL be more powerful than the other.
but at the end if the time lapse is not very big, one console will do certain things better than the other console and vice versa... much like the currect situation with R300 and NV30.... where the NV30 does some things better than the R300 and the R300 does a lot of things better than NV30...
