"How do developers feel when they know they're working on a crappy game?"
- Thread starter Wunderchu
- Start date
Depends on the situation and how much personal influence you have... It'd be no different that working any piece of software that's crappy. In some cases there's nothing you can really do (other than quit), because there's too many above you making the decisions... A lot can depend on your personal reasons (pulling a paycheck, just using your current position as a "launch pad", etc..)
Last edited by a moderator:
I've only ever worked in games, so I don't have a good basis for comparison - but I suspect it feels much like working for any other dead-end job. If you actually like/care about the people you work with or the project, then it's going to be a lot more frustrating - otherwise it's just something you do to pay the bills, until you get a better offer.
With a couple of exceptions most of the games I've worked on have been moderately crappy, tbh. Even the exceptions would most likely be considered "marginally above average" rather than AAA block-busters. One or two titles were real turkeys though (fortunately, though somewhat depressingly for my CV, the vast majority of titles I've worked on were never even released...)
In the end I got a different job, doing core-technology rather than actual games. It's nice because I can be happy with my work without having to take responsibility for what people do with it. I don't have a designer/producer popping their head around the door every morning to put in some bats-arse crazy idea they've stolen from something they played at the weekend (because obviously if it worked in an obscure Llama-farming Korean MMORPG then it's going to be *perfect* for a futuristic FPS).
With a couple of exceptions most of the games I've worked on have been moderately crappy, tbh. Even the exceptions would most likely be considered "marginally above average" rather than AAA block-busters. One or two titles were real turkeys though (fortunately, though somewhat depressingly for my CV, the vast majority of titles I've worked on were never even released...)
In the end I got a different job, doing core-technology rather than actual games. It's nice because I can be happy with my work without having to take responsibility for what people do with it. I don't have a designer/producer popping their head around the door every morning to put in some bats-arse crazy idea they've stolen from something they played at the weekend (because obviously if it worked in an obscure Llama-farming Korean MMORPG then it's going to be *perfect* for a futuristic FPS).
Like Archie and Wibble said, if you can just distance yourself from the work looking at it as any other crappy job that you do only for the paycheck - that's all that it is.
If you personally care about the project though it can really suck knowing things aren't turning out the way you want them to.
Working in the 'frontlines' of production is the toughest job anyway - being a R&D guy is much easier, less responsibilities, less management crap to deal with, less deadlines, less stress - and quite often much more fun as a result too.
If you personally care about the project though it can really suck knowing things aren't turning out the way you want them to.
Working in the 'frontlines' of production is the toughest job anyway - being a R&D guy is much easier, less responsibilities, less management crap to deal with, less deadlines, less stress - and quite often much more fun as a result too.
The real problem is that a lot of people in this industry don't know how to didtance them selves from a product. Working 14 hrs+ a day 7 days a week and producing something crappy at the end of is not a good feeling.
I've worked on a few cappy products over the years, you do what you can, but if you don't distance youself from the product, it's not a nice experience. It's one of the things responsible for the high burnout rate in the industry, over the years I've seen more than one person have a mental breakdown from the stress.
I've worked on a few cappy products over the years, you do what you can, but if you don't distance youself from the product, it's not a nice experience. It's one of the things responsible for the high burnout rate in the industry, over the years I've seen more than one person have a mental breakdown from the stress.
Almasy said:
Sometimes those schedules exist outside of the games industry as well. It's semi-common within most places that require software to function yet have no concept of how to develop software. I'll share my experience in the technology realm in the financial industry.
This is something I hope no one else has to ever experience or know...
I really respected and enjoyed working with the people at my previous place. They were like family. But... My previous employer has no concept of how to treat or how to appreciate their employees. A fairly aggressive estimate for a project would be 4 weeks. They would insist on having it done in 2 weeks. They worked many of us 70-77 hours a week for 7 months to hit a hard deadline [the Second Close date on the sale of the company]. We delivered one month early. Everyone worked hard for the promises of substantial market-adjustments to salary as well as additional bonuses. To reward everyone and show their appreciatian, they said no raises at all for anyone and eliminated 10% of our salary that was tied to objectives (this was not considered bonus but regular base salary everyone counted on getting). On top of that, they had the nerve to insist we continue at the death-march pace.
I left there as soon as I could (1 month including my 2 week notice) after those actions. It was very difficult to leave such great coworkers, but it was easy to leave behind such an employer. When I gave them my notice, they asked if there was anything they could do. I said "They [the company] had done more than enough already and all I could ever trust them to do." Now I work a sane and stress-free 40 hours a week for a 25% higher salary. As an added bonus, the project I'm working on is to innovate for a much larger company within the same industry. Most weeks this includes working only 4 10-hour days, and when I work extra hours one week I take them off the next. Needless to say, my quality of life has improved incredibly once I left that hell.
Last edited by a moderator:
Almasy said:
In my recent experience, working those kind of hours only happens in a badly run company (only 90% of the industry then...
) - in my current job I work pretty sane hours, even when there's an important deadline. If I do have to work overtime, I don't actually get paid for it directly, but I do get rewarded (bonuses, extra time-off, that sort of thing).I tend to fritter away my time off anyway, but it's not the fault of my employer
I have worked some really godawful places but nothing beats an experienceI had somewhat like BRiT. What made the experience worse was my team actually performed the task astoundingly without the resources or support from management necessary, but never got the recognition we/they deserved.
To add to that, another team that did not accomplish nearly as much either within the timeframe or overall nor had the same impact on the government, (the industry I'm in) received support and an award from the same managers. Even they were like "uh... we dont deserve this." This was especially demoralizing especially for me as team lead.
I left within the month and little by little my team members have left the organization for a better work environment. The work itself was very improtant and I am proud of what we accomplished but I never really forgive the management for how destrructive the slap in the face was to a team that changed the face of the US government twice in as many years.
To add to that, another team that did not accomplish nearly as much either within the timeframe or overall nor had the same impact on the government, (the industry I'm in) received support and an award from the same managers. Even they were like "uh... we dont deserve this." This was especially demoralizing especially for me as team lead.
I left within the month and little by little my team members have left the organization for a better work environment. The work itself was very improtant and I am proud of what we accomplished but I never really forgive the management for how destrructive the slap in the face was to a team that changed the face of the US government twice in as many years.
Wow, thanks for the answers, I didn´t knew the slavery didn´t restrict itself to the games industry. Guess I´ll just have to watch out for good gigs then. Oh, I´m curious about something, do you guys (developers) stop having fun with games once you´re actually creating them? Do you even have time for them??
This is a really big problem in the games industry. The management that goes behind games development for many teams is just so poor. 14 hours a day is quite common. I can somewhat understand if it is during crunch time (maximum of 6 to 8 weeks I would hope) but for it to be a normal thing is absurd. That is bad time management for making a game. People will get burned out too quickly with schedules like these.
Doesn't just happen with devs, happens with artists also.
I think a better solution is for the game ocmpany to hire an additional amount of staff to make up for the time that will end up being wasted anyway.
Doesn't just happen with devs, happens with artists also.
I think a better solution is for the game ocmpany to hire an additional amount of staff to make up for the time that will end up being wasted anyway.
Almasy said:
I know a few people working in games who barely ever play anything at all, and a few people that play everything that comes out.
Most people seem to be what you'd probably call casual gamers. I'm probably in that category myself - I go through phases of not playing much, and then buying a few games and playing them solidly for a while.
I don't think working in the industry affects my playing too much, though I probably do find myself over-analysing stuff I'm playing - especially if it's not particularly good.
It affects your view of games obviously - like MrWibble said, you tend to overanalyze, which will usually ruin immersion (tough to be immersed in a game world when I'm combing over what kind of hacks they used to make things look this and that).
Fortunately there's still games made that don't rely mostly on technology to be immersive and/or fun.
Finding time, well as long as you're on normal working hours it's no different then for other working people I guess. Though there's something to be said about not wanting to see a computer screen after spending 8+ hours in front of one at work (but again, that's hardly exclusive to game industry).
There is a difference, though, between working on a game you wouldn't want to personally play (but which might have some merit), or what is called a "crappy game".
I've done the former, and you still try your best (although how we got an 8.5 on IGN I'll never know), in general I would argue a lot of work still goes into a crappy product, only it doesn't show, which is sad in many ways, as it's not always the developer at fault (but neither is it always the publisher, although dev houses often use them as the bogey man).
I've done the former, and you still try your best (although how we got an 8.5 on IGN I'll never know
), in general I would argue a lot of work still goes into a crappy product, only it doesn't show, which is sad in many ways, as it's not always the developer at fault (but neither is it always the publisher, although dev houses often use them as the bogey man).