How can Nvidia be ahead of ATI but 360 GPU is on par with RSX?

[Nemo80]

This is an example of the "unimpressive textures" that would have gotten slammed if it weren't MGS4 or an Xbox 360 game. Things like these didn't take away from the overall impressiveness of the trailer, but it shows that this game isn't technically superior to Killzone.

Oh please not again these stupid comparisons. Have you seen the full HD Trailer? No. So please STFU with this shit. The game is also using a blur- filter which das taint the whole scene in a more life like environment.

^^ at Richard Hudley - not only definately but absolutely PR!

 

[Inane_Dork]

Actually, we don't know if it works.

As Acert already pointed out, that is totally wrong. Final dev kits are out there with final Xenos chip in them. They are producing the visuals we see in several stunning titles, whether you agree they are stunning or not.

 

[scooby_dooby]

At the very least it answer some questions about MEMEXPORT, and provides ATI's view on the efficiency of their new USA.

AlsoI don't know why you're freakin out at Alpha, he just proved his point, the GFX in MGS are not groundbreaking, and they are not at the level of Killzone.

 

[BlueTsunami]

So when it comes down to it, the Ultimate PS3 question is if the PS3 GPU was a 11 o'clock move to get a GPU in there (since Sony's and Toshiba's efforts where put down). But theres conflicting information

But of course - forgot to post it. Here it is: http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/041207e.pdf
SCEI Nvidia Joint Operations PDF

That document was put out around 2004 and Jen Hsun Huang states

“Over the past two years
NVIDIA has worked closely with Sony Computer Entertainment on their next-generation
computer entertainment system. In parallel, we have been designing our next-generation GeForce
GPU. The combination of the revolutionary Cell processor and NVIDIA’s graphics technologies
will enable the creation of breathtaking imagery that will surprise and captivate consumers.â€￾

I'm not sure if its PR or if this has been talked about already but this was posted in 2004 and he states for two years prior to 2004...so you could state that they where working together since late 2002 early 2003. I'm not sure if you could say that working from then that its a 11 o'clock move that ended up putting a g70 GPU in the PS3. Maybe this has already been debunked. *Shrugs*

 

[ihamoitc2005]

memexport

Errr, this is not memexport. Memexport is the capability of effectively letting the shader arrays have arbitary memory read /write capabilties.

So given loops, multi-threading, should be good for non graphics applications?

 

[Lysander]

Anyways, games using the USA are cetainly not in development at all (for 360).

 

[hugo]

Alpha Spartan,the all green pics that you've put up is actually Snake's view through his vision lens.Why don't you put up the actual scene where there were soldiers and bots running across the street?It would be a better comparison.

 

[London Geezer]

Anyways, games using the USA are cetainly not in development at all (for 360). Since the whole architecture is completly hidden by DX on the 360, it's just DX9 not more.

Uhm... Isn't the USA scheduling totally abstract to the developers? that's my understanding of it. There is no "developing for the USA". It just works. Whether it works efficiently or not it's down to the compiler or whatever routines the programmers have not much control over.

I could very well be wrong, but that was my understanding of it.

 

[Nemo80]

At the very least it answer some questions about MEMEXPORT, and provides ATI's view on the efficiency of their new USA.

AlsoI don't know why you're freakin out at Alpha, he just proved his point, the GFX in MGS are not groundbreaking, and they are not at the level of Killzone.

Comparing what? A "clean" PC like screenshot of really not an AAA game that does somehow remind me of that Mechcommander (or whatever) which i once bought for my Xbox a long time ago with something that definately has a lot more detail and polygons in only this one picture and looks so much more better when it moves that it's absolutely ridiculous to compare those two (especially when one is much smaller than the other).

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

Oh please not again these stupid comparisons. Have you seen the full HD Trailer? No. So please STFU with this shit. The game is also using a blur- filter which das taint the whole scene in a more life like environment.

^^ at Richard Hudley - not only definately but absolutely PR!

I'll leave this alone. Hilarious!

 

[Titanio]

So when it comes down to it, the Ultimate PS3 question is if the PS3 GPU was a 11 o'clock move to get a GPU in there

Geez, how boring if that's the "ultimate" PS3 question. Perhaps only if you're interested in the politics of vendor selection or the like. RSX is what we're getting, and that's that. There are far more pertinent questions about it over how it came to be IMO. I can't believe that's still a point of argument, why does it even matter now in light of what we know about it, and what we have known since E3 (it's a later/faster implementation of the G70 tech for PS3). I guess it matters for those insecure/hopeful enough to think that this is a bad thing, and who have a stake in it being or not being any different respectively.

 

[j^aws]

I haven't seen anything that suggests SPEs load balance for the RSX in the same manner that Xenos' ALUs load balance between themselves. Xenos does so on a much finer grain level than I would ever expect from SPEs. Is there some article I missed on the topic? Unless there is, I really don't think what you're advocating is really that comparable to what Dave is talking about.

I'm not saying that the SPUs use the same load balancing mechanism as Xenos' hardware auto-load balancing or share the same granularity.
I said "...pool of SPUs are the load balancing resources...". IIRC, there was an NV article/patent discussing load balancing CPU-GPU at the driver level. However, I'm not referring to the implementation but the concept of load balancing with a pool of ALUs...

I'm trying to type something here to convey the stupidity behind this reasoning, and I'm finding it difficult....

Errm...see my reply above. And take a chill pill Dave...

Yes, the graphics is comprised of the whole of a system, but trying to pin an automatic, hardware controlled, independant load balaning of computational resourses within a single graphics chip as equivelent to load balancing between a CPU and graphics processor, something which is going to have to be developer controlled and hardly going to be dynamic, is quite another thing.

See my reply above...I'm talking about resources not implementation...

Memexport is not really to do with load balancing either.

I know what it is. I was using the above concept of load balancing in the sense that Xenos can offload a task to the CPU if there were any spare cycles to burn there...

 

[Lysander]

There is no "developing for the USA". It just works.

That is what XNA software tool is all about. I think it implements DX10.

 

[Titanio]

That is what XNA software tool is all about.

No it's not. And XNA is not a software tool, it's an initiative.

I think it implements DX10.

?

 

[zifnab]

I'm not sure if its PR or if this has been talked about already but this was posted in 2004 and he states for two years prior to 2004...so you could state that they where working together since late 2002 early 2003. I'm not sure if you could say that working from then that its a 11 o'clock move that ended up putting a g70 GPU in the PS3. Maybe this has already been debunked. *Shrugs*

Yes I noticed it was published in Dec. 2004 and that it states cooperation going back 2 years. But 2 years of doing what? It was the phrasing which I marked in bold that made me wonder: “…NVIDIA has worked closely with Sony Computer Entertainment on their next-generation computer entertainment system. In parallel, we have been designing our next-generation GeForce GPUâ€￾.

He mentions that they were working on the G70 in parallel with whatever they were doing with Sony. So apparently they weren’t working on a tailor designed GPU for the PS3, because otherwise why bother mentioning the G70 parallel development process at all (in this relation). It’s as I said speculative, but they were probably looking at a cell(s) only architecture and/or how the cell would work with something like the G70 along with what tweaks they might make to the G70 for the PS3 implementation.

 

[Lysander]

implement=based upon
initiative = ?

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

No it's not. And XNA is not a software tool, it's an initiative.



?

Even better it's a development Ecosystem. It's a collection of development tools and support community.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

?

Yeah, I liked the mech models in Chrome Hounds better than the models in the MGS4 trailer. I also loved the smoke effects too.

Mech models are fantastic, well lit, but environments especially unimpressive. Smoke effects nice but explosions obviously sprite-based. Some environment textures are poor. Lot of shortcuts.

This is an example of the "unimpressive textures" that would have gotten slammed if it weren't MGS4 or an Xbox 360 game. Things like these didn't take away from the overall impressiveness of the trailer, but it shows that this game isn't technically superior to Killzone.

Yes. Poor bump-map resolution on tank, no self-shadowing, clearly not at level of opening FPS scene, some inconsistency in trailer. Other flaws are some poorly textured walls as well as window in room. But overall technical excellence very impressive, especially the opening scene up to and including attack on soldier.

Killzone2 video has many flaws too, most notably the simplistic fire effects (on burning soldiers) and mediocre building geometry and textures.

 

[Titanio]

implement=based upon

What implements or is based upon DX10? XNA doesn't implement nor is based upon DX10. Again, XNA isn't any one software tool.

initiative = ?

XNA is an idea, a strategy, to have tools play nicely together in a Windows environment. It's not any one tool or set of tools.

Although the definition and meaning will likely shift over time. And it's been a while since I've heard anything XNA-related. I don't know how far they've gotten in reaching their goals, but then again I don't think they put a timeline on achieving what they set out. Many of the things they discussed would be quite longterm, IMO.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Regards MGS Tank : The art team had a limited amount of time to create assets. Time spent obviously on more important things like character models and animations. I don't think it fair to take as an example of a game the very worst picture you can find of it.

Regars RSX as an 11th hour solution : Announced a year before release, if we take the system dvelopment as 2002, same as XB360, RSX came in after 2 years from development start, 2 years in on a 3 year project. That makes it an 8th hour solution.