How can MS do better in Europe?

Obviously, and as I've repeatedly said (to a skeptical crowd, often) existing market situation is tougher for Microsoft in Europe. Half as many Xboxen were sold in the EU as in the US, so it's a much tougher battle - its success in the US was underrated, and its success everywhere else (except Japan) overrated.

Second, the 360 is challenging the soccer and racing titles on the PS3, but it's not successful yet with other titles that are big here, such as Singstar and Buzz - not only do you have to get good titles out there, but they also have to gain good market recognition. In that sense it's easier for them to benefit from Guitar Hero's success on the PS2 than to benefit from Buzz's success on the PS2, simply because the games carry the same name (although Scene It also just isn't nearly as good).

Another important difference is the benefits that 360 owners have over Ps3 owners in the US are not really present in the EU markets. Video marketplace simply is non-existant here. Except for some online demos and games, the Live service offers me basically nothing. To date, there are five lame free videos on the service, the same ones that were there already day one basically. On the PS3 I can't download new stuff either, but I still get more than on the 360 (trailers and such), which is ironical.

Also not un-important is that Microsoft doesn't do nearly as much with localisation. Most of the big Sony titles come with 13 spoken and written (subtitles) languages to choose from, which is great, because especially many young people in the EU prefer to be able to choose, and a lot of people live in a different language area from their own. Considering how many languages you can find in the EU, you can understand that it is an advantage. It may not be huge, but it's a considerable drop in the bucket and one that will be hard to overcome as Sony has a definite advantage with BluRay. I've heard complaints from people with Halo 3 on this one, for instance, buying a disc in Germany and then only being able to have German spoken languages.

Also, the DVD player aspect of the PS2 was more popular here. Each time the discussion comes up, people dismiss this aspect, simply because it didn't have a big impact in the US. But over here, the PS2 was released when few people had DVD players yet. The media qualities of the PS3 are rated much higher here than those of the 360 for that reason, and in combination with the quietness of the console, puts it significantly over the 360 in the eyes of consumers. With no TV download services to offset this as they have in the US, it again puts the PS3 above the 360.

Live costing money is also a downside. Apart from the credit card issue, which has been bigger here than in the US especially last generation, because a lot of young people didn't have access to a credit card, online play still hasn't attained the same level as in the US, partly because the Xbox didn't. To overcome this, I would halve the cost of Live in the EU, at least for a while.

The 360's marketing successes here have, in fact, been Forza 2 (though the trend started with the original Xbox, which already very aggressively challenged Sony on the racing front in the later years) and PES. Their only problem was that FIFA08 was quite good on the PS3, while next-gen PES didn't just suck more on PS3 than on 360 (especially initially and for SD owners), but its first version on the 360 was far inferior to the PS2 version, and the PES series hasn't transitioned well to next-gen yet in general. Other successes are FPS games, but with those they challenge the PC market here more than the Playstation brand fans.

The biggest success for the 360 in Europe so far has been the consistent reports of games looking/running better on the 360, combined with a slightly lower price for both the console and the games. But I feel the 360 has so far failed to make the most out of that and whereas they made the most out of their launch advantage in the US, they dropped the ball in the EU and I don't think there's enough time left for them to make up for it. Sony's got their stuff together at the end of last year, when a whole pile of great games were launched, the price was reduced, and now combined with BluRay winning the format war and all the big titles Sony is putting out this year (all of which have a lot of potential in Europe in particular), I'm not sure what they can do at this point in time.
 
i believe archangelmorph summed it up, they need to do something i do it quick, even in the UK it looks like theyre in trouble
looking at the latest UK software charts
#2 Burnout Paradise xb360 51% of sales
#3 Burnout Paradise ps3 49% of sales
I'm not sure what kind of influence the PS3 exclusive TV advertising had, but MS are doing the same with DMC4 for Xbox 360 now.

Apparently GTA4 will also be marketed for Xbox 360 only. That could be significant.
 
I also do have the feeling that consumer organizations (and in some countries they do influence buying habits) have allot of conflicts with Microsoft. And to be honest they do mostly have a point. They are also the reason why the European commision started an investigation into the 360 faillures.

In Europe Microsoft doesn’t stand for quality where Sony scores very high on that matter. Sony is chique.
 
A good Video Marketplace is also important as well. I mean, there are like 37 films here in the UK XBLM but when I see how much the U.S. are getting, I always feel I am getting downsized version.
 
My two Euro-cents:

First of all, Microsoft has a much lower reputation as a company in Europe than in the US. A lot of people don't like them and will only buy their products if there's no other competitive option. So their uphill battle is not just to gain a foothold in a market dominated during the last gen by Sony, but it already starts with brand reception.

True, and how they're percieved in Europe isn't going to change easily. Many hate their business practises (and everything related to Windows), and acknowledge that Microsoft's goal is to control the living room the same way they control the computer room.


edit: typo
 
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Specifically, pretty much everyone has hands-on experience with MS product(s). Unlike many brands MS is ubiquitous and everyone has an experience with that brand which will affect perception elsewhere of other MS products. That is, if Samsung release a bum MP3 player, users of that MP3 player might well think 'I don't care much for this Samsung device and I don't trust them' and avoid Sammy TVs. Everyone else who hasn't had that bad experience of that MP3 player won't be mistrustful of Sammy TVs. If Sony's financial services aren't good for their customers, those customers may steer clear of buying Sony products, but for people who bank elsewhere there's no such negative association. XB360 could be a fantastic box for many users who otherwise avoid the MS brand because they mistrust it.

The consensus regards MS products is annoyance, in unfortunate part to the complexity of computers which perhaps they can't help, but also in good part to the way MS have done things and made some messy, buggy systems and bizarre choices. As a result I wouldn't be surprised if MS have become victims of their own success, getting absolutely everywhere in a way people can't be rid of them, but with products that frustrate people and leave them cursing the name Microsoft rather than with products that people associate with problem-free quality and ease of use. That's going to be a very hard image to break - it was one of my cynical expectations of the original XB; if MS are making it, expect it to have serious issues, BSODs, and gradually bog down to a crawl after a period of use! :p

If that is the main thing holding MS back, I don't know what the solution is. The XBox brand would be fundamentally, if unfairly, tied to the Windows and Office experience and be dependent on that image for mainstream brand acceptance. The XBox team could produce the greatest system ever at fantastic value but be tarred with the brush of the OS and apps teams.
 
It's just the nature of brand recognition. It's psychological rather than logical.
 
to Mintmaster + Rangers + others ive seen posting the same comparison .
u cant compare console X to the previous generation console sales numbers before it. Back in its day the atari2600 (the only console ive ever owned) was a mega success, cause it shifted ~2million in a year (nowadays such a figure in a year is bankruptcy).

based on history from the last 30 years, each generation expands the market typically increases 20->25%. inflation
this to do equally well u must compare it to X+X*0.25
eg xbox sold ~24million thus to do as well the xbox360 has to sell ~30million. (personally i think itll hit 50million)

last generation will end up ~180million worldwide, thus this generation will end up shifting at least 230million (already the totals close to 50million). though i wouldnt be surprised if this time it moved a few more ~250million, due to the newly created middleclass in eastern europe + asian countries that would now be able to afford buying luxury goods
 
The consensus regards MS products is annoyance, in unfortunate part to the complexity of computers which perhaps they can't help, but also in good part to the way MS have done things and made some messy, buggy systems and bizarre choices. As a result I wouldn't be surprised if MS have become victims of their own success, getting absolutely everywhere in a way people can't be rid of them, but with products that frustrate people and leave them cursing the name Microsoft rather than with products that people associate with problem-free quality and ease of use. That's going to be a very hard image to break - it was one of my cynical expectations of the original XB; if MS are making it, expect it to have serious issues, BSODs, and gradually bog down to a crawl after a period of use! :p

Well, they had (and still have?) serious hardware issues with the 360. And that was the last thing they needed. Due to Windows, Microsoft is often percieved as a firm which rushes unfinished and flawed products to the market, and makes adjustments later on. That's exactly what they did with the 360, and that doesn't really add up to their reputation as a hardware maker, at least not in a good way.
 
Why unfairly tied to Windows and Office?
If the XBox product is fantastic, it should not be assumed to be poor because of other products. It's like knowing one man who's a thuggish wazzock and then meeting his brother and expecting him to be the same just by association. It is human nature, as is judging a book by its cover and going by first impressions, but they're not ideal behaviours. Regardless, if that's what MS are up against, that's the way it is. They can't approach the market saying 'okay, so you don't like our operating systems, but our games console is really great so give it a look!', which makes marketing the system quite a challenge. For each advert a consumer might see that's positive about the MS brand, if there's a run-in with an OS annoyance for example, the advert won't have much affect.
 
Well, they had (and still have?) serious hardware issues with the 360. And that was the last thing they needed. Due to Windows, Microsoft is often percieved as a firm which rushes unfinished and flawed products to the market, and makes adjustments later on. That's exactly what they did with the 360, and that doesn't really add up to their reputation as a hardware maker, at least not in a good way.
From where are you coming from?

Here in France it's the exact feeling most people (who have to much time to spend on internet :LOL: ) show!

Anyway, I really think that the best think MS can do for themselves in Europe is to crush the ps3 in US.
Their product has to be seen as a leading product.
 
to Mintmaster + Rangers + others ive seen posting the same comparison .
u cant compare console X to the previous generation console sales numbers before it. Back in its day the atari2600 (the only console ive ever owned) was a mega success, cause it shifted ~2million in a year (nowadays such a figure in a year is bankruptcy).
I don't know what you're trying to disprove. Of course there is change from generation to generation.

The point is that there is a cap on how well you can do with an upcoming console based on current brand recognition/respect. Shifty is echoing this same sentiment.

MS can't really do much better with the 360. Maybe if they never had the RROD it would help, but even if they make the perfect faultless console today it wouldn't help now. Maybe if MS was a strong CE brand before 360 was launched, they could do better, but it wasn't. Maybe if people associated 'fun' with MS like they do with Nintendo, MS could appeal more to the casual market, but they don't. Maybe if they had lots of first/second party studios that they grew in the last few decades, they could do better, but they don't.

There's nothing MS can do but make the best of the current situation.
 
I wonder what board-room meetings are like for the XBox division execs?

"What can we do about Europe?"
"Nothing really."
"True, true. Pass another Jaffa cake, would'ya"

;) Do you think there are lines of thought that can aim to penetrate the market somehow and the business guys do have a job to do with this gen beyond the usual, or that they've all accepted the fact that Microsoft doesn't stand for strong values in some markets and because of the whole company image, that's what they're stuck with and they won't waste money to change it? Must be a difficult position to be in (if you care about the job, though of course if you're just happy to get paid good money for achieving nothing it's a great job where nobody expects results!)
 
:LOL:
I guess they can try some stuffs:
Free live in Europe
Lower price
depending on their budget.

Anyway the best things they can do for themselves in Europe is the exact same things they should for themselves overall:

Increase their lead in US and hope for cascading effects on software (editor choices) and hence in sales in other territories.

What could they do?

HArdware front:
Reliable machine ASAP
A slimer machine ASAP
A HD playing machine ASAP (not for all SKU but a revamped elite SKU wouldn't hurt either)

Software:
Put Rare to better use
Put Rare to better use... once again :LOL:
I mean they need a real showcase game technically (I don't expect that GeoW II will be enough I fail see to see somebody else doing the job than Rare)

Ms have put significant ressources on Jrpg to gain momemtum in Japan, results are what they are...
Ms could try to gain (it's late now but anyway) to develop MMORPG on the 360,(more in guildwars way than in the WoW way in regard to subscription anyway).
Or if MS haven't be so focused on Japan and JRPG they wouldn't have let crackdown II to an unknow (if ever) date.

Other:
Be clear with their multi SKU policy
ie If more and more games are to require HHD do what it take with core/arcade SKU.
Ms should have never allowed Criterion to do what they did with burnout (ie you need a HDD to play online), MS should have shown some nerves and say criterion/EA ok guys you will do with half the sales.
Not denying burnout franchise but not overestimate it, especially when the game is release at a non critical time of the year...
 
From where are you coming from?

Here in France it's the exact feeling most people (who have to much time to spend on internet :LOL: ) show!

Anyway, I really think that the best think MS can do for themselves in Europe is to crush the ps3 in US.
Their product has to be seen as a leading product.

Finland.

I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but where I live Sony is synonymous with high quality. I've seen Sony Bravia HDTVs top the charts week by week, eventhough there are far more cheaper TVs available. As a matter of fact, those of my friends who've bought HDTVs, have almost all chosen Bravias.

That's one the differences between Sony and Microsoft. The latter's hardware hasn't got the same reputation as the former's, although Microsoft has made quality PC hardware; ie. mice and keyboards. Many are willing to pay more for Sony's product, than for example Samsung's or LG's. The PS3 sales in Europe are testament to that, even at a higher price (and smaller game library) it managed to beat the 360 in some countries, and in less than a half of the time the 360 has been in the market

In my opinion, Microsoft made also mistake in the console design. It just doesn't look like a state-of-the-art entertainment device, it looks more like a toy. I for one wouldn't want to keep it visible in my living room.
 
Again... it's not that the Xbox isn't good enough, it's that the PS3 isn't bad enough to make a lot of people look for alternatives.
 
Again... it's not that the Xbox isn't good enough.

It certainly isn't good enough ,at least :

-teenage cheap Design (box+PSu, and GUI)
-Very bad Fab quality (+noise) ,
-SKU conusion.

Just try to imagine how it would fare without that really good GPU .
They would also badly need a stronger first party to make it really shine.
 
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