Horizon Forbidden West [PS, PC]

[ZebMacahan]

If Alloy being a radioactive glow in the dark entity is your thing, more power to you! She does at some point drag a whole train wagon with her hands without much effort, so maybe she is really an enhanced superhuman and the glow is a side effect.

The hero light may look pretty but it makes her stick out from the world too much for my liking.

I did give the mod a try and it works great for outside environments, but in interiors the devs relied too much on this fake light so it makes her looks super weirdly colored.

A matter of taste I suppose. I dont think It looks like radioactive glow, rather like some cinematic light which hightlights the details of the model and separates her a bit from the background. I think it adds detail to the scene as well.
The game doenst look 100% realistic anyway, rather more like a painting in some sense so I think it fits the style.

 

[davis.anthony]

Dont you need like a 2000 dollar graphics card to run those games with path tracing?

No.

And the fastest card you can buy right now doesn't even cost $2000

 

[ZebMacahan]

No.

And the fastest card you can buy right now doesn't even cost $2000

Could PS5 run Forbidden west with path tracing?

Edit: The RT mode in Cyberpunk just adds RT shadows, and thats in 30 fps.

 

[davis.anthony]

Could PS5 run Forbidden west with path tracing?

No it couldn't due to various reasons.

With PS5 Pro they could likely add RT reflections to CP2077 along side the RT shadows.

 

[Karamazov]

RT shadows are only for interiors on consoles.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Alane Wake 2 with path tracing, CP2077 with path tracing and a smattering of other amazing looking games will do that.

And it's not that Forbidden West bad bad, it's just no where near the level I expected given the hype around it's visuals (And for a game that won best graphics at DF in 2022)

I'd agree with this. I'm currently playing CP2077 and my wife is playing H:FW, both maxed out on the same setup, often one after another so the comparisons are pretty direct.

I'd say Horizon can be a spectacular looking games in select parts, and character modelling in particular is a high point. But in many other areas it can range between "great" to just okay". It never looks bad IMO, but there are plenty of areas where I've been pretty unimpressed. The same can be applied to any game of course but I'd just move all the averages up quite a bit for say CP or Avatar (I don't have AW2).

I'll caveat that though by saying I'm not playing it myself and although I've spent some time watching my wife play it, I think you pick up more on the high (and low tbf) points when playing it for yourself.

Without path tracing, CP77 looks worse than HFW, worse pop in (awfull sprite cars in the distance), worse character modeling, awfull water rendering.

Are you talking on PS5 or PC there? Granted I play with PT enabled but I don't think dropping that down to the max standard RT settings would make that much difference. While the lighting in CP2077 is phenomenal and definitely the main highlight, the base graphics are still extremely good. I do think there's a narrative that the game is only good because of it's lighting but it's one I definitely don't agree with. For example I've never noticed any sprite cars after dozens of play hours and the water looks great to me. Characters vary from okay to superb but I agree Horizon has it beat there, at least in some instances.

Dont you need like a 2000 dollar graphics card to run those games with path tracing?

A $590 4070 Super would be more than sufficient.

 

[Karamazov]

Are you talking on PS5 or PC there? Granted I play with PT enabled but I don't think dropping that down to the max standard RT settings would make that much difference. While the lighting in CP2077 is phenomenal and definitely the main highlight, the base graphics are still extremely good. I do think there's a narrative that the game is only good because of it's lighting but it's one I definitely don't agree with. For example I've never noticed any sprite cars after dozens of play hours and the water looks great to me. Characters vary from okay to superb but I agree Horizon has it beat there, at least in some instances.

PS4/PS5 and PC share the same visual assets in CP77, no higher detailed NPCS or scenery for the PC version sadly (i think that's something nanite can solve and save time for devs, as it could adapt to the hardware it runs on to deliver maximum detail for every config). So yeah it's slightly worse than HFW PS5 IMO in different areas (worse does not mean bad though)
that's a point i liked in HFW PS5, they made the effort to put higher fidelity character models compared to the PS4.
Then we could argue that NPC density is way higher in CP77.
I don't think CP77 uses volumetric clouds for its skybox too.
Each games shines in different graphical aspects.

 

[snc]

PS4/PS5 and PC share the same visual assets in CP77, no higher detailed NPCS or scenery for the PC version sadly (i think that's something nanite can solve and save time for devs, as it could adapt to the hardware it runs on to deliver maximum detail for every config). So yeah it's slightly worse than HFW PS5 IMO in different areas (worse does not mean bad though)
that's a point i liked in HFW PS5, they made the effort to put higher fidelity character models compared to the PS4.
Then we could argue that NPC density is way higher in CP77.
I don't think CP77 uses volumetric clouds for its skybox too.
Each games shines in different graphical aspects.

Imo there is realy no purpose to compare xsx/ps5 version of cyberpunk to forbiden west, cyberpunk on consoles looks mediocre when forbiden west is still one of best looking game

 

[Nesh]

I'm sorry that I don't find this light leakage impressive....

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I've not even gone out of my way to find these area's and they're not in some random part of the map you're not supposed to get too, they're on a direct path. but quality issues like this are every where.

This flying shot was captured with HDR on which is why looks overblown, but the pop-up when flying around is abysmal, just look at those trees, it's crazy how no one has ever mentioned this horrendous pop-up when flying.

I even watched PS5 videos on YouTube of people flying around to check that it wasn't a driver bug or something but no, the pop-up is just as bad on PS5 if not even worse on PS5.

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The issue is the game has been hyped to hell for its visuals and my hype (and plenty others) has been equally as high to see it.

But it's nothing more than a jumped up PS4 game.

Finding some imperfection is one thing. Cancelling fully the whole visual package is another.

Edit: btw the overblown flying part perplexes me. I didn't observe something like that when I was playing on PS5 unless I missed it

 

[Karamazov]

Pop in is noticeable when you fly high, but i'm not sure it's better in Avatar

But maybe on PC it can be modded thurther.

 

[ZebMacahan]

I think the main story is pretty cool in this game, but man, so many of the characters are so freaking bad.
Every dialogue, at least in the sidequests, lack any kind of subtility.

-"Yeah, If you help me Ill give these shards to the poor. Ok since you asked me once I´ll crumble and admit Im a bit of a shady character. I was planing to keep these shards for myself. All my life Ive been somewhat of a small time crook, but your right oh flamed haired savior, I should turn my life around and help people instead" Its on par with the super expositionary dialoge of a Neil Breen movie, but not being fun at all.

And the tenakth are supposed to be this terrifying warrior people, but all of them come across as people who spend their time drinking latte and hanging on social media or whatever those people do. Only kotalo and chief herrako or what his name is have any kind of intimadating presence.

And all those boring crap missions which are supposed to be emotional. Go to this part of the map and listen to some crap about some old woman who met a man 50 years ago and wonders about the life she could have had. Visit that guys villiage and listen to some more boring crap, go back, tell her what you learned and listen to more boring crap.

And have your main character spell out in black and white what is right and wrong, like your talking down to your audience.

When did video game writng become so freaking crappy?

Amazing game in so many other aspects though.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

Yeah, it was much the same in the first one: interesting main story, dog-water side filler. Less is more.

And the tenakth are supposed to be this terrifying warrior people, but all of them come across as people who spend their time drinking latte and hanging on social media or whatever those people do.

Because that's who the writers are. No life experience, no hardships, and no character. Their work is as vapid as themselves.

 

[ZebMacahan]

Yeah, it was much the same in the first one: interesting main story, dog-water side filler. Less is more.



Because that's who the writers are. No life experience, no hardships, and no character. Their work is as vapid as themselves.

I thought the side missions, and the main story missions as well, were alot better than in the first game. The main problem was often the writing, acting and directing.

 

[Seanspeed]

When did video game writng become so freaking crappy?

Only explanation is that your standards have simply gotten higher, cuz I assure you at no point did video games ever generally have anything close to good writing, with occasional exceptions spotted about over the years.

Largely, writing quality has gotten much better on average, it's still just....not great. It's a big reason I almost never get invested in video game stories the way I can a good book. Shallow character dialogue and whatnot just pulls me out of investing into things more.

 

[ZebMacahan]

Only explanation is that your standards have simply gotten higher, cuz I assure you at no point did video games ever generally have anything close to good writing, with occasional exceptions spotted about over the years.

Largely, writing quality has gotten much better on average, it's still just....not great. It's a big reason I almost never get invested in video game stories the way I can a good book. Shallow character dialogue and whatnot just pulls me out of investing into things more.

No, the kind of crap we see today is something different. Its like the writers are taking down to you, characters arent belivable, theres no subtitlity, theres no room for moral gray areas, its preachy, and every single "joke" falls flat. Apparently just calling someone "lug nut" is funny to these people.

Sure, many games arent very deep, but they were still fun. Sgt Johnson from Halo isnt i very deep character, but he´s a fun character as opposed that super anoying, melodramatic winy pilot from infinite who I just wanna shot in the face with a rocket launcher.

I played mass effect again pretty recently. Its lightyears (pun intended) ahead of much of what we see today. Characters are belivable and likable. You get the impression that these people are experienced and competent leutenants, scientist, soldiers, crime bosses etc. Often there are gray areas with no clear right or wrong, instead of the protaganist preaching to the player what the moral correct thing to do is.

There are exceptions of course. I thought psychonauts 2 had excellent writing, but the absolute high mark for me was guardians of the galaxy. The writing, acting, direction and humour was freaking perfection.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Only explanation is that your standards have simply gotten higher, cuz I assure you at no point did video games ever generally have anything close to good writing, with occasional exceptions spotted about over the years.

Largely, writing quality has gotten much better on average, it's still just....not great. It's a big reason I almost never get invested in video game stories the way I can a good book. Shallow character dialogue and whatnot just pulls me out of investing into things more.

I'm in 100% agreement with this. It's also why I prefer multiplayer now, as single player games have strayed further from game play and lean more heavily on story. Single player games generally have a heavy focus on dialog scenes, in-game cinematics and scripted mini-cinematics (walk forward and character does a bunch of stuff without any input). I'd be much more likely to play a game like Horizon if the story was removed almost entirely.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

I thought the side missions, and the main story missions as well, were alot better than in the first game. The main problem was often the writing, acting and directing.

Sorry, I should've clarified. I meant purely in terms of story.

Only explanation is that your standards have simply gotten higher, cuz I assure you at no point did video games ever generally have anything close to good writing, with occasional exceptions spotted about over the years.

Largely, writing quality has gotten much better on average, it's still just....not great. It's a big reason I almost never get invested in video game stories the way I can a good book. Shallow character dialogue and whatnot just pulls me out of investing into things more.

I think this is largely why the first TLOU was so well received: it wasn't revolutionary, it was simply a well told story by and for adults. That's such a rarity in the medium that it stuck out like a sore thumb.

 

[ZebMacahan]

I'm in 100% agreement with this. It's also why I prefer multiplayer now, as single player games have strayed further from game play and lean more heavily on story. Single player games generally have a heavy focus on dialog scenes, in-game cinematics and scripted mini-cinematics (walk forward and character does a bunch of stuff without any input). I'd be much more likely to play a game like Horizon if the story was removed almost entirely.

I want story driven games to have story and dialogue segments, but I agree, theres too much of it and not enough fun gameplay. I replay halo 3 from time to time, and its like fun all the time. Often I just want a cool setting to shoot stuff in. Games have forgotten to be fun first and foremost. To much focus on scripted mini-cinematics like you said, and collecting, crafting and alot of other boring busy work.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

No, the kind of crap we see today is something different. Its like the writers are taking down to you, characters arent belivable, theres no subtitlity, theres no room for moral gray areas, its preachy, and every single "joke" falls flat. Apparently just calling someone "lug nut" is funny to these people.

Sure, many games arent very deep, but they were still fun. Sgt Johnson from Halo isnt i very deep character, but he´s a fun character as opposed that super anoying, melodramatic winy pilot from infinite who I just wanna shot in the face with a rocket launcher.

I played mass effect again pretty recently. Its lightyears (pun intended) ahead of much of what we see today. Characters are belivable and likable. You get the impression that these people are experienced and competent leutenants, scientist, soldiers, crime bosses etc. Often there are gray areas with no clear right or wrong, instead of the protaganist preaching to the player what the moral correct thing to do is.

There are exceptions of course. I thought psychonauts 2 had excellent writing, but the absolute high mark for me was guardians of the galaxy. The writing, acting, direction and humour was freaking perfection.

I think part of the issue is that the quality has effectively remained largely the same (poor) but has become fertile ground for tedious propagandists who think they're changing the world with their slop.

You're not gonna. It's largely a silly medium. Have some fun with it.

I think it's why the sergeant character you mention works well: they're a larger than life archetype like many characters from 80's action movies. And that's largely where the medium's still stuck. Using something so shallow to attempt social commentary is almost always going to come across as hamfisted.

 

[trinibwoy]

You're not gonna. It's largely a silly medium. Have some fun with it.

The irony is that the medium has potential to tell very compelling stories since you spend a lot of time in the world compared to a movie or even a book.

The hard part is making it interactive while still engaging. I’m working my way through Mankind Divided right now and there is a ton of exposition in the game via cutscenes, interactive dialogue and reading material. It’s a lot of content but still doesn’t do a great job fleshing out character backgrounds and motivations. A book or movie is a completely passive experience where the writer takes you exactly where they want you to go. Replicating that in a game is pretty hard.

I agree in general though that writing in games is universally bad. That’s not a new thing.