Horizon Forbidden West [PS, PC]

[iroboto]

Come on, we're not expecting to see dimensional gates and subsequent huge instant 'level-swapping' dynamics in all games, just because it can be done, are we? When there is a reason for it to happen (R&C, although it looks more gimmicky to me than anything) then it will happen. We have not seen loading times, but we can already see the level of detail on screen which is being streamed. Insane.

We have not see all of HFW yet, and what we have seen has incredibly dense amounts of details. Of course the game will look 'similar' to HZD, it's the direct sequel! It's the same Decima engine, with some upgrades and turned to 1000000. Also, it is probably worth revisiting the very gorgeous HZD, because it did not look flawless all the time. The sheer amount of tiny details and density everywhere we have seen on here is a humongous step.

And if you don't believe me, this passes the boyfriend test. He literally never cares about this stuff, never really sees graphics the way I do, and even he went OMG LOOK AT THAT DETAIL. Not once did he say it looks anything but next gen compared to HZD, and we played it in 4k HDR.

And that's cool, high end textures and details are a hallmark sign of what next-gen is. And yes HZD checks all the boxes there for high end models, textures etc. For me, if someone is going to make the claim that PS5's unmatched SSD speed is required here, then I'm going to have to speak up and try to separate what is compute and what is SSD. And since Sony has been marketing the SSD so much, a lot of what is imo, what can be achieved without it, is now being heavily attributed to PS5's unparalleled SSD speed.

There is a point in there where regular SSD will be required. But I can't eyeball horizon and say, yea, that's definitely took more than 2.5GB/s to load everything you saw there to render that. Certainly such a slow driveby of the crabs would not require that level of speed.
I'll give you an example for instance, DICE put this demo out 3 years ago from today nearly.
And it also looks incredibly high textured, and full of flybys and environment changes with fairly dense environments and models. No super SSD required here. It's dated of course, we didn't have this level of power 3 years ago. But it showcases what is achievable with enough horsepower. And should be noted how there is a specific amount of ratio between compute processing power, fast memory, slow memory, and super slow memory. And alleviating slow memory reduces a ton of pressure on the programmers when they struggle to hit targets. But a majority of programming is done to put the emphasis on the fastest part of the system, which is trying to do as much as possible on compute and fast memory (L0/1/2 cache... then VRAM... and then archives). Just because the SSD is here and now, doesn't change that programming paradigm.

 

[Clukos]

Compared to the first game her model looks quite a bit more detailed

Also nice detail how these small pebbles are casting shadows

I've already got the platinum on PS4 but now this trailer has me excited to replay the first game on PC

Edit: AO also looks remarkably clean and stable

Maybe they moved on to something similar to the UE SDF AO? (if that's the case, good! SSAO can go away for all I care )

 

[chris1515]

Compared to the first game her model looks quite a bit more detailed

Also nice detail how these small pebbles are casting shadows

I've already got the platinum on PS4 but now this trailer has me excited to replay the first game on PC

Edit: AO also looks remarkably clean and stable

Maybe they moved on to something similar to the UE SDF AO? (if that's the case, good! SSAO can go away for all I care )

The shading, peach fuzz, the model is much better.

 

[Xbat]

I'm not trying to piss on it, but next gen sits more with R&C where they are pushing the SSD to load a multitude of different things

I'm not so sure the SSD could be playing a big part in the detail when she dives under water, depending on the detail and variation of what it looks like on the surface.

 

[iroboto]

I'm not so sure the SSD could be playing a big part in the detail when she dives under water, depending on the detail and variation of what it looks like on the surface.

I think in that case, you'd have a better case for when the Heron dives into the water, than when Aloy dives into the water. These are cut scenes though, so depending on how swimming works for HZD, I can't say for sure. I cited R&C because that was the worst case for any streaming VT system, so it's highly reliant on just the brute speed of SSD. As long as the camera isn't going crazy, neither should your SSD.

 

[Globalisateur]

I looked even more stylized, even more beautiful, than the first. But not more technically impressive (because of the cartoony look and the fact the first was already so good looking). I think after the UE5 demo people are starting to be more impressed by realism. I also think Death stranding gameplay (ish) is still more technically impressive that those cutscenes.

It's not about how much power you have, it's all about what you do with it. I am still going to buy that game though. I liked the gameplay and story of the first game. I just hope they'll improve the awful melee combat.

 

[London Geezer]

I also think Death stranding gameplay (ish) is still more technically impressive that those cutscenes.

Sorry but you must be blind.

 

[iroboto]

Sorry but you must be blind.

lol.

 

[London Geezer]

I love almost everyone on here but sometimes I do wonder!

IF you played Death Stranding (which I LOVED) you'd know that it has some great terrain - completely static - and not so great terrain - also static. It's a lot of this:

in between very high poly rock formations in other areas.

How can anyone say that this looks better than what little we have seen of the new Horizon? With all the dynamism, veg and grass, physics everywhere... Come on.

 

[iroboto]

I love almost everyone on here but sometimes I do wonder!

IF you played Death Stranding (which I LOVED) you'd know that it has some great terrain - completely static - and not so great terrain - also static. It's a lot of this:



in between very high poly rock formations in other areas.

How can anyone say that this looks better than what little we have seen of the new Horizon? With all the dynamism, veg and grass, physics everywhere... Come on.

You picked the best possible picture hahah. Dude taking a piss haha.

 

[Globalisateur]

Sorry but you must be blind.

Youtube compression. But even with that I could clearly see the next gen look of GT7 or Ratchet. I just didn't see it here, yet. But again, I am totally insensitive to custcenes.

 

[Arwin]

People confuse technical quality aspects with style preferences, among others. Not something you would hope to see much of on this particular forum but hey

Horizon 2 gave me the real next gen goosebumps, although Ratchet and Clank was up there. No matter how gimmicky it may seem, it was really obvious that next gen can do something we couldn’t do before.

Horizon 2 though looks amazing. Clearly you can see also some results from Sony studios sharing knowledge amongst themselves - the underwater scenes weren’t actually that far removed from Uncharted 4’s very nice underwater scenes but still a clear evolution, and the vegetation too moves in that direction more - it’s nice that this part of the Horizon world goes a little more in the jungle direction but also the new streaming capabilities clearly allow for far more drastic landscape changes in a relatively short timespan, witnessing the also excellent desert scene.

Also a reminder - everything we saw was captured on actual PS5 hardware, this was clearly stated. So while we could just be seeing in-engine cutscenes (as I’m sure we’ve seen quite a bit), I recon the difference with actual gameplay is going to be smaller than ever.

 

[Mitchings]

Aloy's facial animation looks excellent, particularly right after she jumps into the water. That coral detail too...!

I worry bad video compression and big screens are likely making this stuff a lot less impressive to people. The quality of that stream was abysmal, especially on twitch via PS4. Even the YT 4K trailers are very poor, full of banding and blocking.

Sony need to pull their finger out and get higher bitrate 4K 30/60 10-Bit direct feeds over to gamersyde, this content only being available in this quality is criminal.

 

[chris1515]

 

[Xbat]

These are cut scenes though, so depending on how swimming works for HZD

True but I assume ( I know what they say about assumption ) that the reason they showed so much underwater stuff and Aloy with a Rebreather mask it's going to be in the game and it's probably an area where a fast SSD will help a lot in having totally different assets under water than what's above.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

There is a point in there where regular SSD will be required. But I can't eyeball horizon and say, yea, that's definitely took more than 2.5GB/s to load everything you saw there to render that. Certainly such a slow driveby of the crabs would not require that level of speed.

I don't think anybody will have to guess this given Guerrilla Games are prolific GDC presenters.

I think we can expect a lot of presentations at GDC 2021 and Beyond! on how devs are making the most of the SSD in both nextgen consoles - assuming that the absence of load times isn't explanation enough ;-) but I do expect a fair number of talks and presentations focussed on the comparison between the issues like the PS4 Spider-Man 20mb/sec bandwidth threshold and nextgen, given this can impact how they designed the city and how much meaningful variety one 'city load block' can introduce from another. Ditto, it'll be interesting to see how much data is saved from not having to duplicate assets.

 

[London Geezer]

I don't think anybody will have to guess this given Guerrilla Games are prolific GDC presenters.

I think we can expect a lot of presentations at GDC 2021 and Beyond! on how devs are making the most of the SSD in both nextgen consoles - assuming that the absence of load times isn't explanation enough ;-) but I do expect a fair number of talks and presentations focussed on the comparison between the issues like the PS4 Spider-Man 20mb/sec bandwidth threshold and nextgen, given this can impact how they designed the city and how much meaningful variety one 'city load block' can introduce from another. Ditto, it'll be interesting to see how much data is saved from not having to duplicate assets.

If I remember correctly, HZD was already ok-ish with regards to loading times (fast travel, deaths etc), given the limitations of the hardware. It did get very long at startup, as expected.

 

[Globalisateur]

People confuse technical quality aspects with style preferences, among others. Not something you would hope to see much of on this particular forum but hey

Horizon 2 gave me the real next gen goosebumps, although Ratchet and Clank was up there. No matter how gimmicky it may seem, it was really obvious that next gen can do something we couldn’t do before.

Horizon 2 though looks amazing. Clearly you can see also some results from Sony studios sharing knowledge amongst themselves - the underwater scenes weren’t actually that far removed from Uncharted 4’s very nice underwater scenes but still a clear evolution, and the vegetation too moves in that direction more - it’s nice that this part of the Horizon world goes a little more in the jungle direction but also the new streaming capabilities clearly allow for far more drastic landscape changes in a relatively short timespan, witnessing the also excellent desert scene.

Also a reminder - everything we saw was captured on actual PS5 hardware, this was clearly stated. So while we could just be seeing in-engine cutscenes (as I’m sure we’ve seen quite a bit), I recon the difference with actual gameplay is going to be smaller than ever.

Actually I prefer the style of Horizon than Ratchet. But Ratchet was gameplay, something I could imagine playing with a controller. I'd be impressed when I would interact with that virtual world.

I am not going to be impressed sitting passively on my couch and watching a nice animated movie. I am not 10 anymore. The most impressive part of Horizon 2 was when the camera switched to a normal gameplay view when she was in the water. Why, but why didn't they show more parts like that moment ? Unfathomable.

 

[Karamazov]

if it is any indication of things to come, HZD1 cutscenes only enhanced characters lighting, every other assets were identical during gameplay.

 

[London Geezer]

You can clearly see some checkerboarding (or some other type of artifacts?) if you zoom in on that underwater close up of Aloy. Her hair, some of the edges, even the water itself. And some aliasing here and there? You really have to zoom in, but I think that shows they're pretty darn real.