Holographic Disc to Store One Terabyte of Data

terabytes of storage will be needed quite soon, IMO ....

full uncompressed 1080p HD video takes up over 300 GB per hour of video (source: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/wi...andingHDFormats.aspx#storageneedsforhdcapture )........... granted, compression using H.264 , etc., saves you a lot of space..

However, people who do any type of video capturing/editing and want to work with the raw uncompressed video will definitely find uses for terabytes of storage space..

 

Nope head of the av club and we had a fund rasier for new equpment . Dunno if we got an education discount or not . But that is how much we payed for it

Yet depending on the storage space in the pc sector the price might not matter. A 30 gig bluray disc even at a third of the price of the one terabyte disc of hvd will not be cost effective enough . It will be just likie bluray is now . Its enjoying a nice price premium in japan at 2k a unit i believe . Yet next year its supposed to be in a 400$ ps3 ? Huge decrease in price in just a year don't u agree .

Right excpet hvd will have a huge storage and speed advantage over both hd-dvd and bluray . Costs I don't know . However a war between hd-dvd and bluray may prevent either from becoming mainstream and may make it easier for the third to come around and take the market .

I'm not a (crap whats the word videophile ? ) but I can tell a diffrence between regular dvds and superbit dvds. I think the same will be diffrfence in the future

Thank you and dont' forget that is me thinking up things in a few seconds . Not a bunch of people being payed money to think up ideas .

It all depends . If bluray and hd-dvd aren't making them money because the war is keeping adoption rates low they may all flock to a single standard which has obvious advantages .

As for stores they wont matter much in the future. Actuall if the tri layer hd-dvd discs with the dl dvd print on the third layer are a reality it will most likely be hd-dvd getting space as they wouldn't have to cary dvd discs anymore .

Mabye . Mabye bluray or hd-dvd will enjoy a good 10 years on the market till 2015 or 2016 and then a successer of hvd will take over . Mabye something with 5-10 terabytes a disc or more .

Yes , I would se eit crossing over the home electoronic side. After all dvd was big first in dvd roms later in the dvd home players .

As for hd-dvd vs br you have to bring both up as they both directly affect the other .

 

Why do you see a life long war between the two formats. With both formats coming out with in months of each other I see the war lasting no longer than 18 months.

The only way the war will last longer is if both media sells at the exact same rate. And if this happens I have to follow Ty the movie studios will not want to have a 3rd party media in the war.

If your Sony Pictures, Paramount, or Warner Bros. why would you want a picture like this.


1. X amount of movies on HD-DVD.

(people will buy this due to the movies being 2 or 3 dollars less and their choice of movies will be supported by HD-DVD's movie partners.)

then

2. X amount of movies on Blu-ray disc.

(people will buy this due to the extra space for HD extras etc., they may have already bought the PS3, their Dell, HP, or Apple desktop or laptop came with a Blu-ray drive, or their choice of movies will be supported by the Blu-ray's movie partners.)

then

3. X amount of movies on HVD.
(people will buy this for the super extra space and faster seek times. Even though to this day no movie studios have announced any content for this media.)


Do you really think that the movie studios will like to see this happen. Best Buy and other retailers will hate this outlook. With DVDs, UMDs, Blu-ray disc, HD-DVDs, and HVDs. TOO many movie formats. AAARRGHH!!

This future is not a future that will likely happen. Somebody has to win and somebody has to lose. The first winner and loser will be between Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD. Whom ever wins this battle win have to face HVD!! Dum, Dum, Duuuummmm.

 

I think that is very foolish to believe . It will take longer than 18months for anyone to really care and for there to be more than 200 or so movies to be avalible . Most consumers wont but either formats untill there are enough apealing tittles .

Well you can blame sony for 2 of those formats . Hd-dvds can replace dvds by putting a dvd version on the third layer . So really shelf space wise as I explained in one of my other posts will show hd-dvd to be the best format in regards to that .


However If the stuidos unified with a 3rd standard like hvd it will effectivly kill both bluray and hd-dvd in one swoop .

Neither bluray nor hd-dvd has to win. There can be no victors in the battle .

 

HVD can only make a splash if both BRD and HD-DVD fail. BRD is capable of supporting 1080p with MPEG-2 for like a 4hr movie on a single-disc. That's 32GB if using 30Hz, and 26GB @ 24Hz (36Mbps or 4.5MBps). A single-layer BRD @ 25GB will be fine for a standard-length movie (2-3hrs). If you need more space, you can go DL and have 50GB to play with. You can put like 8hrs of content on a single DL disc. HD-DVD can do the same, although you're bucking DL almost immediately for a standard-length movie at that resolution. I just don't see what HVD would have to offer videophiles over these two formats.

The advantage HVD will have is for backup or other tasks that require many GB of space. I seriously doubt we're gonna see uncompressed video. I don't know if it's a realistic proposition really. Besides which, you'd need to push HVD's spec from the getgo to do that. You could use less compression, but it would have to make a noticeable difference over MPEG-2 or H.264 @ 1080p. Is that gonna be the case? From the samples we've seen so far, I seriously doubt it.

Studios are already on-board with the current two formats. HVD is out in the cold unless both BRD and HD-DVD fail. And I doubt that b/c at the very least, you'll have tens of millions of BRD players with Sony's large personal movie library against HVD starting from zero. I see HVD (and its successors) as great storage formats, but as video formats, it will take the collapse of HD-DVD and BRD for it to have any chance.

The storage game is one that increases as time passes. You can keep looking to the future, b/c something will come along that's better than HVD, probably before it ever hits retail. But at what point do you stop dreaming and start doing? Well, the doing is going on right now with BRD and HD-DVD. HVD as a future video format is a pipedream IMO. PEACE.

 

I am willing to bet hvr 1 terabyte drives have no way of being writeable by consumers. Last time I was in a University lab (3 years ago) there was no forseeable way to write holograms 'real time' or with consumer available products.

 

You sure about that?

I've personally badmouthed holograph tech since it left me with blue balls back during the Project Reality hypefest. Supposedly, holographic cards were gonna be the next big thing over a decade ago. All we got today is vapor. But...it seems the impossible has been done, and this thing might finally be a reality. I'll wait for it to hit the market, but unless they're lying, it's recording. :? PEACE.

 

Yes, perhaps the PC sector is less price sensitive - perhaps.

This argument of your does get back to something you seem to believe in. That the technology of the next generation of media (be it HD-DVD, BR, or HVD) will first be adopted in the PC sector and then move over to the Home Electronics side. As mentioned before, I don't quite believe that as DVDs didn't become adopted from the PC sector. Maybe times are different but I doubt a decent % of the average consumer watches DVD movies on his PC as opposed to his DVD player in his living room.

Aren't those BR recorders and not just BR players?

Perhaps it might make it easier for a 3rd format to come in and kill the others off but I don't see how if HD-DVD and BR has all of the combatants. That is, right now there is no one left to champion HVD, they are either behind BR, HD-DVD, or both. Could some pull away and support HVD? I guess it's possible but not likely since so much momentum has been built up behind HD-DVD or BR. Who would remove their support from HD-DVD or BR and go with HVD?

Dude, superbit is a hack.

Anyhow MechanizedDeath did the math and it shows that BR supports 1080p quite easily.

Hard to flock to a standard when no one is making the machines. Also IF HVD players are 3x BR or HD-DVD (and again, if the prices don't ramp down because there aren't enough manufacturers of them) then the adoption rate of HVD will suffer.

TL HD-DVDs aren't likely soon. It will be a big advantage if they can combine the DVD version along with the DL HD-DVD version but that's not happening anytime soon it seems.

I disagree with you on this. I think the adoption of DVDs as a standard didn't come from the PC side whatsoever.

 

Sure but VHS later caught up with BETAMAX in performance VHS HQ and S-VHS.

Yep BR players/recorders have been available on the market for years, but still no movies. Support doesn't mean anything if there is no content.

Exactly.

That could be only a couple of years away...

Actually HVD was talked about here in the console forum way back last year when SONY decided to provide blue laser OPUs for Optoware. In fact it was SONY who believed HVD could/would be an extension of BR for the future. Guess who used this as some sort of evidence to declare BR = HVD? Guess what their motive was?

Difference now is that BOTH Toshiba and SONY support HVD. Does that switch on any light bulbs???

Do you know any consumers who want to buy two different format players to watch HD movies?

As a consumer I like the fact I will be able to watch HD movie titles from TW, Universal, or Paramount on HD DVD.

How about that? Cheaper than the first BR recorders. I've said this before and I'll say it again, HVD makes more sense than both BR and HD DVD for the long term where we'll be moving from HD to UHD etc.

Actually Hybrid HD DVDs need to be released fairly soon in the life of HD DVD to be of any benefit. It's strictly a format to help consumers with the transition from DVD to HD DVD.

 

It took quite some time for VHS to catch up. Furthermore this is no guarantee that HD-DVD (VHS) will catch up to BR (Betamax) technologically. Even at this early stage, BR has longer technological legs than HD-DVD.

BR players aren't meant for the mass market yet. Who knows, maybe they'll never be but until they are sub $250, they will be relegated imo, to a niche sector.

Could be but highly unlikely considering how long it's taken HD-DVD and BR to get where they are now.

Nope, the argument is still hypocritical. Are either Toshiba or Sony are dropping their plans for HVD? Both are probably just postering for the future.

In the previous format war (VHS vs. Betamax), how did studios handle this? Did they release two versions of movies (until VHS stepped forth as the victor)?

Do you think that if BR wins, the studios behind HD-DVD won't jump ship? Likewise the reverse will happen; even if Columbia themselves have to publish HD-DVD versions over BR ones, they will.

Are the studios behind HD-DVD exclusive? Or have they simply not mentioned BR support yet?

Technologically speaking, I think we can all agree with you. Pragmatically speaking, HVD isn't likely in the near term. There is too much momentum (from all the players) behind either HD-DVD, BR, or both.

Absolutely they would need to be released in the near term for them to matter. But do you think this is going to happen by using TL HD-DVD discs like jvd mentions? Or are they more likely to use a DL disc with the HD-DVD movie suffering due to a more aggressive compression method so it will fit? Mind you, I'm assuming that a SL HD-DVD will not be enough for a 2HR movie using good PQ compression.

 

That's kinda irrelevant though because HD DVD already has near identical *performance* ie no visual differnce. The BR advantage is *slightly* more capacity at the expense of higher cost.

I agree especially considering there is talk about affordable standard DL DVD recorders based on HD DVD's codecs.

HD DVD and BR are different because they have to wait for blue lasers to become cheap and also wait for studio support. HVD doesn't need to wait for either of those to be sold as PC drives that act like MO drives.

Yeah and that future is only 1 or 2 years away.

SONY didn't own any movie studios back nor was Betamax an open standard.

I doubt CTS will release HD DVD movies and I doubt TW will release BR movies, which means a consumer will need to buy two different format players. It will be similar to DVD-A vs SACD if dual format players are not developed.

Don't know and don't care. Unless dual format players are released consumers will need to buy two players.

Lots of momentum but still not a unified format which will cause it to stagnate for many years.

Yes. In fact I strongly believe the hybrid will be based on the 8.5GB/30GB double sided variety.

 

What are you talking about? You encode the movie in a higher bit rate. What's the hack? There is usually a visual quality difference when doing this.

And in the face of having two options to buy, how many consumers pick neither? What if the industry were to stage a high-def disc format fight and no one came?

.Sis

 

There is no doubt about it . The pc sector is vast . You have a large large scale . You have big media companys that wont mind dropping a few grand on a recordable format that offers 1 terabyte of space . Then you have the hardcore personal consumers who would pay up to 500$ for that space ( i know i would in the next few years ) Then you have those who wait for it to hit 50$

Not to mention other places this can be used. How about movie thearters . a terabyte disc would a great replacement for what they are using now .

Of course they did . Look at mckmass's chart . dvd players in pcs in just hte usa alone outsold stand alone players in the world each year .

So what br-r isn't bluray ?

Once again its all about money. If there is a war people will shy away from placing money on either format . The movie studios want to make money . So if they aren't making money on those two formats they will try to find something they will make money on . Its very simple

Sure , if its a hack then bluray is a hack .

It produces better image quality. I've seen it and with more storage space the bit rate will increase or you can move on to less compressed codecs . A movie on hvd will look better than bluray or hd-dvd .

There will be people making them. The storage space is way to large for the pc sector not to adopt it . With that scale will come very quickly as the pc market is much bigger than the home market .

I don't know when tls are coming out . If its next year it will still give a huge advantage , if its two years from now it could come at an important time and give hd-dvd mroe steam or renewed life or allow it to steam roll over bluray depending on how its doing .

Its a big factor when stores like blockbuster have only so much space .



http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...dfaq.html+how+many+DVD+players+sold&hl=en

Hmm in 2000 46dvd roms sold in the world vs about 18 million standalone players sold in the world .

In 2002 there were 75m dvd-rom drives vs 43m dvd players in the usa .

 

Look at the DVD-A/SACD situation and you'd have your answer.

People will come by default when the players become cheap enough since the content will certainly be there.

 

DVD-ROM drives aren't necessarily players. You need software players (codec) to make them players, and you need the will to sit and watch movies on a smaller-then-normal PC screen, which is probably located nowhere near your tv-viewing couch. The difference between a DVD-ROM and the PS2 is that the PS2 was a DVD player straight out of the box. Should be count CD-ROM drives as CD player sales? Really, I think that's stretching the argument, but whatever. I think most people (particularly those who followed the Japanese launch closely) will accept that the PS2 did in-fact constitute a large portion of DVD player sales for the first couple of years. After that, the market had reached saturation point, and it was pretty much self-sustaining. OR...it's just an extreme coincidence. :? PEACE.

 

CD-ROMs have software or music or movies on them DVD-ROMs only have movies on them....

 

Good point PC and that's probably what's going to happen to HVD. There is no real need for DVD-A or SACD. How many cars come equiped with DVD-A players? How many people have home stereos that support SACD?

Thats the same thing thats going to happen to HVD. Without hardware support and any real consumer interest your tech will just lay on the shelf.

 

Sorry but you don't get it. I'm not talking about HVD. I'm talking about two movie formats in the form of BR and HD DVD. HVD is not a movie format, it's a storage format like a HDD. People will buy it for mass storage. BTW you must be kidding about HVD not getting hardware support.

 

Actually I'm glad to hear you say that. So its on record that PC-Engine thinks that HVD will not be a movie format. Cool. 8) Mass storage YES YES and YES. HVD could be a killer format there thou.

 

Actually what I'm saying is that HVD will be released out onto the market as a mass storage device first. When and if Hollywood adopts it is a totally different matter. Personally I'm hoping HVD is adopted by Hollywood so I wouldn't have to buy two format players. The other bonus is the massive storage capacity.