Hi Def Video Formats: Post CES 2007 Snapshot
- Thread starter Geo
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I was, honestly, kind of surprised the BR studios announced so much stuff for the first quarter.
I was also kind of surprised at the lack of specific announcements by Universal (although they did have a flier which listed some titles, but in the face of Sony/Disney/MGM/FOX's announcements, it looked kind of anemic -- still some good titles though). Warner/paramount didn't really announce many specifics either... But they should have an abundance of titles.
I realize CES isn't necessarily a software show, but it's still a good place to announce that stuff, since software, ultimately is what matters on these formats... a "vaporware" 51gb disc? Doesn't really matter much (30gb has been argued to be enough for ages, and I don't necessarily disagree with that). Chinese players? Lite-on, for example, is also on the BR side and has announced a BR drive -- none of those chinese companies made any announcements themselves, which generally means they are far off, so what the HD DVD group announced wasn't anything that will affect consumers this year, most likely... CES '08 is where we'd see them. Onkyo player? That's a nice addition to HD DVD side. Meridian announcement? Likely no player to hit before '08, as even in their press release about it, they sure sounded early on in creation of it (the press release was sort of ambiguous -- no doubt they'll make a player, but it won't be any time this year we see it). Toshiba's HD-A20 sounds pretty good too. They had a few good announcement, but overall a pretty underwhelming showing as far as tangible product (be it software or hardware).
BR definitely has the content advantage in theory and starting in December it started to be realized. The only disappointing thing about BR's showing this year was the lack of more ~$500 players -- there may be one, but the players for '07 didn't have any announced prices. BR was sort of at a disadvantage, as far as player announcements go -- I don't imagine most of the companies were all that eager to announced their Gen 2 players when their Gen 1 players just got released in the last 2 months -- Samsung was the only company that could be reasonably expected to announce a good sounding Gen 2 player, and they did (at $799 msrp though, should be able to find ~500 deals on those though... as the now $899 msrp Gen 1 player is ~550 new). Sharp announced a player, iirc, but I think it's another high priced unit. We probably won't hear about a Gen 2 player from Panasonic/Pioneer until Q2.
If I had to choose who had the better showing, I'd definitely say BR, since all that matters to me at this point is content. HD DVD definitely won '06 with a lot of excellent titles early on (warner/universal were on the ball), but it seems '07 is BR's time to shine.
I was also kind of surprised at the lack of specific announcements by Universal (although they did have a flier which listed some titles, but in the face of Sony/Disney/MGM/FOX's announcements, it looked kind of anemic -- still some good titles though). Warner/paramount didn't really announce many specifics either... But they should have an abundance of titles.
I realize CES isn't necessarily a software show, but it's still a good place to announce that stuff, since software, ultimately is what matters on these formats... a "vaporware" 51gb disc? Doesn't really matter much (30gb has been argued to be enough for ages, and I don't necessarily disagree with that). Chinese players? Lite-on, for example, is also on the BR side and has announced a BR drive -- none of those chinese companies made any announcements themselves, which generally means they are far off, so what the HD DVD group announced wasn't anything that will affect consumers this year, most likely... CES '08 is where we'd see them. Onkyo player? That's a nice addition to HD DVD side. Meridian announcement? Likely no player to hit before '08, as even in their press release about it, they sure sounded early on in creation of it (the press release was sort of ambiguous -- no doubt they'll make a player, but it won't be any time this year we see it). Toshiba's HD-A20 sounds pretty good too. They had a few good announcement, but overall a pretty underwhelming showing as far as tangible product (be it software or hardware).
BR definitely has the content advantage in theory and starting in December it started to be realized. The only disappointing thing about BR's showing this year was the lack of more ~$500 players -- there may be one, but the players for '07 didn't have any announced prices. BR was sort of at a disadvantage, as far as player announcements go -- I don't imagine most of the companies were all that eager to announced their Gen 2 players when their Gen 1 players just got released in the last 2 months -- Samsung was the only company that could be reasonably expected to announce a good sounding Gen 2 player, and they did (at $799 msrp though, should be able to find ~500 deals on those though... as the now $899 msrp Gen 1 player is ~550 new). Sharp announced a player, iirc, but I think it's another high priced unit. We probably won't hear about a Gen 2 player from Panasonic/Pioneer until Q2.
If I had to choose who had the better showing, I'd definitely say BR, since all that matters to me at this point is content. HD DVD definitely won '06 with a lot of excellent titles early on (warner/universal were on the ball), but it seems '07 is BR's time to shine.
Update on LG:
Lastest word is that LG doesn't care for the HD DVD logo/compliance. It will not be submittied to the DVD forum. They'll sell it as a Blu Ray player that also happens to play HD DVD's. However, their next player, due out in June is a true combo player with proper BD and HD DVD compliance.
The answer is easy: wait.
Lastest word is that LG doesn't care for the HD DVD logo/compliance. It will not be submittied to the DVD forum. They'll sell it as a Blu Ray player that also happens to play HD DVD's. However, their next player, due out in June is a true combo player with proper BD and HD DVD compliance.
The answer is easy: wait.
The BR CE's are at interesting point. The standalone players aren't selling. The PS3 is easily taking majority of the sales. Even the AV folks are buying the PS3 due to the raw horsepower that should allow for it to be fully BD-Live spec compliant with firmware updates. Also, titles like Descent that have issues on the standalone players must wait for firmware fixes via mail or download and burn to a disc. The PS3 however, with a robust online backing is much quicker at receiving such updates.
I'm wondering if this is/was part of the grand strategy. Let the PS3 hog up all the sales for the first year or two, let it establish BR and then the CE's can jump in with cheaper players laters. I'd be very difficult for me to recommend a BD stand alone player over the PS3 at this point.
http://www.sgknox.com/2007/01/11/no-porn-on-blu-ray/ This would be hot if true. That pr0n has gone HD DVD so far because Sony is threatening licensees to keep them away from it.
Could be, it wouldn't really surprise me, seeing how often it's recommended by the AV folk online. PS3 definitely isn't a slouch as far as BR player goes.
That's an interesting one.
I think the importance of disc format porn has been somewhat reduced in the last 10 years -- I think the age of the internet has more or less taken over that market. It's too easy to get it for free now days. HD though...
Still stupid if Sony are indeed not allowing questionable content -- I have a feeling there is more to it then that though. Digital playground seems to be the only porn house that's talked about it though.
Edit: I don't think Sony even has the power to pull a license alone -- wouldn't they need the agreement of at least the board of directors or something? BDA isn't Sony alone.
rendezvous
Regular
Are there any real numbers to back up the importance of porn?
I've been trying to find the importance of porn in the Betamax vs VHS war, and have yet to find any convincing information from a source that isn't highly questionable. What I have seen are that other factors could have had much more impact than porn, e.g. price and playlength.
Add to that what the prevoius poster mentioned; That internet stands for a large portion of the porn distribution today, I found a number saying that 60% of the porn distibuted today was through P2P.
This number seems huge, add salt to your liking.
And is the benefit of HD porn huge enough? I haven't seen animated porn in HD, perheps someone could fill me in.
I would personaly not mind seing a winning format that is free from porn.
I've been trying to find the importance of porn in the Betamax vs VHS war, and have yet to find any convincing information from a source that isn't highly questionable. What I have seen are that other factors could have had much more impact than porn, e.g. price and playlength.
Add to that what the prevoius poster mentioned; That internet stands for a large portion of the porn distribution today, I found a number saying that 60% of the porn distibuted today was through P2P.
This number seems huge, add salt to your liking.
And is the benefit of HD porn huge enough? I haven't seen animated porn in HD, perheps someone could fill me in.
I would personaly not mind seing a winning format that is free from porn.
rendezvous
Regular
Sorry, I'm a mere layman, I'll have to trust your expertice in the subject.
Do you have any numbers to back that up, not that i mistrust you, only for information?
What I am questioning is actually two things.
Is the advantage of HD porn enough to be a major driver in the adoption of HD video content over discs?
Can porn be a major factor of which format to be the winning?
Sorry for all the porn, but it was you that brought it up.
Hmm, at least some people seem to think porn played a role in the win of VHS. Guess I wasn't paying attention at the time.
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/05/02/pornhd/index.php?lsrc=mwrss
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/05/02/pornhd/index.php?lsrc=mwrss
Yeah, it mattered in VHS days, certainly. Now, I'm not so sure. Maybe there will be some impact. But where I live now in the extended digital cable pack you don't just get BBC3 and BBC4, but also Spice TV and Hustler TV. And that's 24h pr0n right there (quite daunting, to be sure! - best figure out quick how to lock such channels if you have kids ...)
- best figure out quick how to lock such channels if you have kids ...)Inq has a longish piece pushing this account as well (i.e. that Sony has threatened to pull licenses for any BR pr0n movies). http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36942
The more I think about it, the more it seems like some FUD, misunderstanding, or we don't have the whole story. Sony and the BDA can't really limit what gets stamped on the discs, as far as I know -- as long as replication houses have the license, they can put whatever they want on the disc (from the BDA's perspective). If they were to threaten the replication houses like was said they'd probably find themselves in court.
There is already porn in Japan on BD, so obviously some companies have been able to get their discs stamped. It seems more like... in NA, Sony has control of all the replication houses at the moment and they just won't stamp porn discs (I doubt their DVD replication facilities, if they have any, would do it either).
There is also the problem with volume at the moment -- I think most of those replicators are probably running full stop at the moment... taking the time to stamp movies that will at best sell 1/10 of even bad PG13 movie isn't exactly a smart use of time at the moment.
I don't think the BDA even has the right to limit content from a legal perspective... The Blu-ray spec makes no mention of what's in the content, only the specs the content must meet and how it has to be authored. Meaning, the porn houses would just have to wait for a disc replicator that will actually do it (no direct ties to Sony/Disney, likely).
Regardless, as I said before, I don't think the porn industry is that important to this format war as it supposedly was to the VHS/Beta war (which is dubious at best -- I've not heard much reliable information about it, only the urban myth version that it won the war for VHS).
As usual, the inquirer ran with the dramatic version.
There is already porn in Japan on BD, so obviously some companies have been able to get their discs stamped. It seems more like... in NA, Sony has control of all the replication houses at the moment and they just won't stamp porn discs (I doubt their DVD replication facilities, if they have any, would do it either).
There is also the problem with volume at the moment -- I think most of those replicators are probably running full stop at the moment... taking the time to stamp movies that will at best sell 1/10 of even bad PG13 movie isn't exactly a smart use of time at the moment.
I don't think the BDA even has the right to limit content from a legal perspective... The Blu-ray spec makes no mention of what's in the content, only the specs the content must meet and how it has to be authored. Meaning, the porn houses would just have to wait for a disc replicator that will actually do it (no direct ties to Sony/Disney, likely).
Regardless, as I said before, I don't think the porn industry is that important to this format war as it supposedly was to the VHS/Beta war (which is dubious at best -- I've not heard much reliable information about it, only the urban myth version that it won the war for VHS).
As usual, the inquirer ran with the dramatic version.
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That would depend entirely on how the license was written in the first place. Tho one presumes that the replication houses have lawyers too, and those lawyers are suspicious sh*ts, as lawyers are wont to be, and pointed at such language to their employers, who then fought with Sony, and said things like "Well, we won't play then --good luck with that new format thing.", etc. It'd hardly be a one way street in such a negotiation.
Dunno where the truth lies on this one yet, tho hopefully as it gets more play somebody from Sony or the replicators will come out on the record and say something definitive.
Dunno where the truth lies on this one yet, tho hopefully as it gets more play somebody from Sony or the replicators will come out on the record and say something definitive.
