Hard drive's impact on video gaming

[NavNucST3]

...

There are instances where a HDD helps out console games, but in the end it hasn't changed the face of video games in any major compelling way. The main reason I want a HDD in Xbox 360 is because my regular Xbox is modded. I wan tthat kind of functionality in my new system (eventually) but looking at it from the greater perspective it really isn't a necessity. ...

Sonic,
I have to completely agree with you, as a matter of fact I think it is "us" that does the bulk of complaining about lack of HDD. The "us" I am speaking of, is those of us with a modded xbox. There really is not compelling reason to have one, other than to store stuff, be that games launching directly from the hard drive (for those that don't know how much faster a game launches from the HDD...you would be envious), or extras/demos. While I wish the 360 offered me everything xbmc does, I am happy with what I see so far from the GUI.

I also think the hard drive will be used more this gen as Live! comes into being what MSFT envisioned originally. I think it will be a great delivery resource for extras (e.g. PGR3 extra tracks, cars....blah blah blah).
I think the only compelling reason for the hard drive would be if MSFT and game devs wold allow us to store the game on the hard drive ala something like dvd2xbox...since we know that is NEVER going to happen, I am actually more interested in some XP (pro/home)-->360 hacks that allow streaming of anything and everything.

 

[scooby_dooby]

HDD's allow for an entire Genre of games, MMO's.

So everything from Huxley, to All Points Bullettin, to the Marvel MMO, to FF11, we also have the makers of Dungeon Siege saying they are extremely 'interested' in x360, rumours of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, all these games require a HDD and the console hasn't even launched yet!

Does an entirely new genre count as a breakthrough that's worth having?

For them to really take off it needs 2 things, widespread HDD installed base, and widespread broadband connections. If both these can reach a signifigant percentage this generation then MMO's on consoles could really take off.

I don't really see any great new gameplay mechanics from a HDD, just overall better games(i.e. extract more power from the system), allow greate rflexibility for Devs to try new ideas, a wider variety of genres and better support for PC-based games.

 

[NavNucST3]

HDD's allow for an entire Genre of games, MMO's.

So everything from Huxley, to All Points Bullettin, to the Marvel MMO, to FF11, we also have the makers of Dungeon Siege saying they are extremely 'interested' in x360, rumours of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, all these games require a HDD and the console hasn't even launched yet!

Does an entirely new genre count as a breakthrough that's worth having?

For them to really take off it needs 2 things, widespread HDD installed base, and widespread broadband connections. If both these can reach a signifigant percentage this generation then MMO's on consoles could really take off.

I don't really see any great new gameplay mechanics from a HDD, just overall better games(i.e. extract more power from the system), a wider variety of genres and better support for PC-based games.

All things being equal I think the type of gamer that plays MMOs is also a "premium" buyer. I think devs know who they are shooting for, and for some types of games require or assume the HDD is there, I think MMO devs are aiming for "premium" buyers...don't know so I could be talking out my @$$.

Believe me I wanted everyone to have the HDD as well. But again, scooby you are also a modded user who is used to utilizing the HDD.

 

[see colon]

i think the main thing non-volitile memory has brought to videogames comes in the form of extra content. one of the coolest things the HDD added to xbox games were things like new costumes in DOA, new cars for racing games, updates for online games (to fix gameplay ect)

what i'd like to see is more of an infection like model of content distribution. nintendo and sony are doing it with the DS and PSP where you can download game demos from other people who own the titles, and nokia has gone full out and released a title (snakes) that is distributed 100% electronicly. downloaded from the internet and transmitted wirelessly from handset to handset (there's an option right in the game).

if nintendo opened the revolution to the homebrew community, maybe with limited functionality (like limiting homebrew development to working in the "virtual console" environment and capping the feature set at the n64, or even snes level) i think people would be all over it. include a peer to peer wireless connection in the hardware for sharing homebrew files, and possibly make a few $$ off the homebrew dev kits ($20-50, the same price as most console software)...

i have to stop, or i'll get excited and only be disapointed when my dream doesn't come true...

 

[3dilettante]

I haven't seen a comparison, which makes me curious about the difference in seek time and average transfer bandwidth between a small HD and a disk drive similar to what the 360 will have.

Devs will probably get along fine with carefully tweaked streaming to memory directly from the disk to RAM, but I'm sure most would run into a situation where it would have been great to have just a few tens of megabytes per second more of bandwidth.

It could be a matter of sacrificing a few dozen high-res textures here or there, or a more conservative LOD system, things not really all that visible to most gamers. Procedurally generated textures might be great for a lot of it, though I wonder how much of it can be used to great effect by artists.

User-created or additional web content is probably out, since only a fraction of the market is going to have a HD, probably not enough to justify dev effort in polishing the toolsets.

What I think devs are really going to miss going forward is the ability to download patches. As much as it is the legacy of the hideous quality-control problems of many PC developers that I pray never enters the console realm, I think they are reallly going to wish they could patch once the more complex multi-threaded titles go out.

 

[BlueTsunami]

What I think devs are really going to miss going forward is the ability to download patches. As much as it is the legacy of the hideous quality-control problems of many PC developers that I pray never enters the console realm, I think they are reallly going to wish they could patch once the more complex multi-threaded titles go out.

Thats one thing I absofrickenlutley do not want. I understand that when a game is done that devs will want to patch some thing after the release that they may have missed. I think the downloadable content is cool as an addon but patches...I would rather worry about that on PCs.

 

[3dilettante]

I know it would suck to have patches on consoles, but unless they are willing to stretch out dev times and QA significantly, we're going to either have a wave of crappy console games or a lot of recalls.

The price for all this is going to get even higher and force even more small devs out.

 

[BlueTsunami]

I know it would suck to have patches on consoles, but unless they are willing to stretch out dev times and QA significantly, we're going to either have a wave of crappy console games or a lot of recalls.

The price for all this is going to get even higher and force even more small devs out.

Thats very true. I just fear incomplete (development wise) games being rushed out just because they need to hit a release date (if a patching system is implemented). The one thing I liked about console games is that they just...worked...you put the game in...theres probably a bug here or there (in my years of playing games..I've never ran into a critical one..or one that made the game unplayable)....in which case I can state differently for PC games. The need for games being released on time will yield incomplete console games where users have to wait for random patches to come through...

Another thing is how will that system be implemented since console games aren't installed like PC games....would there be some type of soft patch on the HDD that would run when the game starts up?

 

[AlNom]

Another thing is how will that system be implemented since console games aren't installed like PC games....would there be some type of soft patch on the HDD that would run when the game starts up?

*cough* Unreal Championship*cough*



I think there are a couple other games that have had actual patches...Halo 2 and Ghost Recon.

 

[BlueTsunami]

*cough* Unreal Championship*cough*



I think there are a couple other games that have had actual patches...Halo 2 and Ghost Recon.

So it has begun! hmmm...I guess thats where the industry wants us to go. It is a fact that dev costs are going to be higher and game development may be longer...so patching will come into effect to meet deadlines. I just hope broken games aren't common, not broken as in they don't work..but broken as in they have bugs that annoy the hell out of me.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Aren't most of the patches to stop cheating on XBOX live? (I don't know...I'm not on live)

I don't think you'll see unfinished games just because patching is available, an unfinished game gets bad reviews, doesn't sell, and loses the company money. They can't depend on a Patch to fix the game down the road, by then it's too late.

This is a very real question which MS hasn't answered yet...

how will future games be patched? If they aren't....will cheating run rampant? Will HDD-less users be segregated into a non-patched games while the HDD users play the up-do-date versions?

Will they play together?

p.s. another reason why MMO's require a HDD. They constantly need to be patched...

 

[AlNom]

I believe the Halo 2 and Ghost Recon patches were related to cheating, but there were also some weapon balances. Unreal Championship fixed performance issues by turning off AA. So really, these aren't your typical PC patches. The main idea is that there can be files run off of the harddrive with a higher priority than the files already on the disc.

 

[Tap In]

yes NFL 2k5 also had online patches which just affected the Live games, but they were necessary. NBA 2k5 had a patch that made the game offline and online play more realistically and fixed a Time Out glitch in the single player game . Also the roster updates are a must for sports games.

same for Halo, stopping LIVE cheaters after they find another way to circumvent the system is a full time job at Bungie, it seems.

so for me I welcome patches with open arms and hope that the lack of HDD in some systems does not prevent them. Hopefully they can be saved to MCs.

 

[mckmas8808]

Hey guys check out what Gabe Newell says about the X360 not having a hard drive.

The latest issue of Computer Gaming World has an interview with Gabe Newell, Valve Software’s founder and managing director, in which the developer of Half-Life 2 and Counter-Strike discusses various topics including the release date of Aftermath, Lost Coast and Day of the Defeat Source.

Gabe also had time so discuss Windows Vista, the next-generation operating system from Microsoft due out late next year, and the Xbox 360.

"Look, I spoke to some people at Microsoft, and as I said, I can't point to a single feature in Vista that I care about that solves problems for us at all. And I had the same conversation with the Xbox 360 guys. It's like, Xbox 360 doesn't make my life any better, and in fact, it makes it a lot worse, as you're telling me I can't count on having a hard drive."
As you can see, Valve’s head honcho and former Microsoft employee isn’t happy about the fact that developers can’t rely on the Xbox 360 hard drive and he’s probably not the only developer who feels that way.

Make sure you pick up the latest issue of CGW, which hit stands next week. There are more interesting items in that interview, including Valve’s revelation that EA plans to offer a Steam-like service in the near future.

Wow that doesn't sound good. HA!! too bad my man I guess he will be pissed when Sony will probably announce the same thing.

 

[ninzel]

The hard drives impact on gaming will be be determined by the consumers demand for it and thier willingness to pay for it.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Hey guys check out what Gabe Newell says about the X360 not having a hard drive.

This was already posted, I think.

Anyway, if you read the surrounding context, his opinion seems less severe than it does there. He's mainly talking about producing the kind of community involvement that World of Warcraft has and how the lack of a standard hard drive makes that difficult. I understand that, but I'm not sure there's really a need for that kind of gaming movement in the console space.

 

[mckmas8808]

This was already posted, I think.

Anyway, if you read the surrounding context, his opinion seems less severe than it does there. He's mainly talking about producing the kind of community involvement that World of Warcraft has and how the lack of a standard hard drive makes that difficult. I understand that, but I'm not sure there's really a need for that kind of gaming movement in the console space.

Oh ok cool. I guess that's not too bad then.

 

[ninzel]

Hey guys check out what Gabe Newell says about the X360 not having a hard drive.



Wow that doesn't sound good. HA!! too bad my man I guess he will be pissed when Sony will probably announce the same thing.

Interesting, more devs who's work I like, talking like that could have me change my mind about the HDD. I wish more devs were as outspoken so I could feel I'm getting the whole story.

 

[Sis]

Hey guys check out what Gabe Newell says about the X360 not having a hard drive.

But again, what has this got to do with video gaming innovations? No one is debating whether or not the hard drive is a nice luxury. The topic here is solely around determining if the hard drive is "critical" to video gaming innovations.

So far, the innovations start at downloadable content and end at patches. Caching is somewhere in the middle.

.Sis

 

[Bobbler]

It seems pretty obvious to me.

The Harddrive's impact is little more than a luxury or feature -- not a defining aspect of gaming in my opinion.

We've had consoles for years without HDDs and they've kept up and surpassed PC gaming in popularity (I'm pretty sure console gaming has been bigger than PC gaming for a few years now) and have only been limited from certain genres by controls, not HDDs. The HDD can enable a few things, but nothing a 1gb mem stick couldn't -- those should be pretty cheap by next year. The caching arguement seems to be more or less moot (arguably), the downloadable content can be put on a large mem stick/card. I think the harddrive is mostly hype -- the space a harddrive offers is usuable (that isn't the issue), but the need for an HDD over a large mem stick/card is not really there.

With that said: if (when) I buy a Xbox2 I'll be sure to get an HDD -- same with a PS3 (PS3linux might be interesting). The storage is hard to beat, but the absolute need for it to 99.99% of gaming just isn't there.