Halo: Reach

[Silent_Buddha]

bullshots have fastly become the new trend for all games this era. gears 2, R2, alan wake, heavy rain all used and are using them. using bullshots doesn't yet confirm anything, all it proves is it's a good method to use for promoting. it must seem jaggies of any sort is a blight in the advertising industry.

PR shots have been used ever since computer gaming came into existence. It's nothing new. It's not more prevalent.

It's just more argued about because it's been increasingly used in console wars versus comparisons on vocal forums that pander to versus comparisons.

Regards,
SB

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

PR shots have been used ever since computer gaming came into existence. It's nothing new. It's not more prevalent.

It's just more argued about because it's been increasingly used in console wars versus comparisons on vocal forums that pander to versus comparisons.

Regards,
SB

hmmmmm, did Ps1, N64, and Sega Saturn use it?

i can't remember.

 

[(((interference)))]

They have to necessarily take screenshots in tiles due to the eDRAM when they render to higher resolution framebuffers, in that case, 2560x1440.

Actually, even Doom 3's screenshot command works similarly if you take a screenshot that's higher resolution than your current in-game settings.

Nope. They could be running at whatever res they want. See: 720p no AA Halo 3 screens.

Ah, I thought it was perhaps due to them using tiling now (which we could infer AA from), but that makes much more sense when you consider the res of the screen.

Can we at least tell if the texture filtering has been improved from Halo 3? Are they using anistropic filtering now or negative LOD?

Not to mention the 40+ enemies all with a polygon upgrade over Halo 3.

So not only did the number of units go up but polygon density has gone up compounding the resource useage compared to Halo 3.

Then again, it shouldn't come entirely as a surprised as the underpinings of Halo 3 were designed on Xbox and then later modified where time allowed for X360.
Regards,
SB

I've heard this been thrown around for quite some time, I always thought it was a typical fanboy statement being disappointed with H3's graphics and angry at Bungie for using the H2 engine again.

Did they actually just port the Halo 2 engine over to the 360 and use it for Halo 3? IIRC I read a post here ages ago discussing this and someone said it was incorrect due to their whole new complicated lighting set-up etc.

But if it was the same engine it would go a long way in explaining why H3 looked sub-par and how they're managing to push both higher fidelity (and much higher at that, if the AR model has more polys than an entire H3 marine!) and more enemies on screen from the same box.

 

[assen]

Can we at least tell if the texture filtering has been improved from Halo 3? Are they using anistropic filtering now or negative LOD?

Negative LOD is not "improved texture filtering"; it's a dirty, disgusting hack that kills performance and introduces aliasing artefacts. While it has its uses (e.g. when making bullshots), it should absolutely not be relied on to improve texture sharpness.

I've heard this been thrown around for quite some time, I always thought it was a typical fanboy statement being disappointed with H3's graphics and angry at Bungie for using the H2 engine again.

The engine used in H3 is an evolution of the engine used in H2, etc., with the origins traceable to Pathways into Darkness, a 1993 game. Clean-slate rewrites of a successful engine hardly ever happen. "H3's engine is just improved H2" is not an insult, even when it's thrown around with the intention of being one.

 

[egoless]

Delete

 

[Tap In]

Their excuse? And then your list? wow.

Ok, why should Bungie pander to the checkbox clan? IF the game is 720p with some form of AA this clan will then proceed to move goalposts to the next preconceived checkbox from what single item they percieve is important. They will continue to gloss over the fact that these games are outputting much more than what was possible last generation or current generation systems posing as advancements from the last. Meanwhile, Bungie and outfits like Infinity Ward laugh all the way to the bank with their refined COMPLETE PACKAGE while these gadflys pull out all the vitriol they can muster to satisfy a vocal minority and/or the run-of-the-mill fboy.

Yes, let's cut the game down to far less enemies than Halo 3, use uninteresting gears of war flocking AI on everything, make it a single player affair, and toss in Natal for good measure. And now let's run at 1080p. Do you see the flaw in resolution bulletpoints for anything above SD 480 with total disregard for the COMPLETE PACKAGE? "But game/system X does/doesn't yadda yadda... this means game/system Y is garbage/awesome, 1.5/next-gen, blah blah blah" ALL ignoring the forest for the trees.

I do no expect Reach to be a masterpiece in any way, shape or form nor do I expect it to be some disasterous affair seeking bulletpoints rather than what's good for the GAME. I expect it to have the formula that worked on all previous games INCLUDING graphics/sound/Live/etc with bells and whistles the 360 can produce that I definitely couldn't get last gen or perhaps even on current gen systems.

good post. I agree... it does what it does and does it better each time and in many areas better than anyone... open games or games with much more going on get a raw deal always (here and everywhere) when going up against corridor type shooters that seem to be "setting the bar"

There are so many things that many games do right without hitting all the check boxes of fans.

 

[(((interference)))]

Now for a bunch of questions.

Anyway, are those sound samples straight from the game or just played back in the studio? Because some sound faster (as far as getting off a shot) than they did in previous games. What is the deal with OONSK? It's confirmed you can fly those things seen in the trailer? So Reach has no Natal support. Does this mean I can't ditch my headset and just use Natal's mic on Live? Has Firefight with matchmaking been confirmed for Reach yet? Any hints anywhere about Reach not having a 100 item limit like Halo 3? Since Bungie said Forge is not being used as they intended, has there been any talk about how Forge will work in Reach to address how the community uses the feature? Any word on custom playlist searching?

Ah, I see the new EDGE is here. Perhaps the Reach coverage answers some of these questions.

1. They are supposed to be 'source audio' , so it's likely they're just played back from sound clips as stuff like the AR reloading is ridiculously quick.

2. OONSK is a stupid HaloGAF meme that spiralled out of control, one of their members has a bad case of pareidolia and though that Kat's (the blue, girl spartan) shoulder pads resembled a figurine. Hence OONSK (they called it that because the shoulder pad had UNSC stamped on it, which can be vocalised as OONSK).

3. Those things in the trailer are called Falcons and they're apparently "the Warthogs of the sky" which means they're going to be much easier/more fun to handle than Banshees and Hornets. And yes, they have been confirmed for MP.

4. No Natal as I previously suggested due to the overheads, don't know the answer to the 2nd part.

6. They tried asking whether the 100 item Forge limit was removed over at GAF, Bungie says they can't talk about that yet

Don't know the answers to the rest.

 

[scently]

1. They are supposed to be 'source audio' , so it's likely they're just played back from sound clips as stuff like the AR reloading is ridiculously quick.

2. OONSK is a stupid HaloGAF meme that spiralled out of control, one of their members has a bad case of pareidolia and though that Kat's (the blue, girl spartan) shoulder pads resembled a figurine. Hence OONSK (they called it that because the shoulder pad had UNSC stamped on it, which can be vocalised as OONSK).

3. Those things in the trailer are called Hornets and they're apparently "the Warthogs of the sky" which means they're going to be much easier/more fun to handle than Banshees and Hornets. And yes, they have been confirmed for MP.

4. No Natal as I previously suggested due to the overheads, don't know the answer to the 2nd part.

6. They tried asking whether the 100 item Forge limit was removed over at GAF, Bungie says they can't talk about that yet

Don't know the answers to the rest.

Correction, its a Falcon.
And HaloGaf is awesome, if you really want to know more about reach and halo in general, you should follow the halo thread over there.
Bungie developers post there from time to time.
Btw, OONSK IS AWESOME.

 

[(((interference)))]

Correction, its a Falcon.

Yea, sorry about that, was probably cos I was thinking about the Hornet when I was typng that. Have fixed.

And HaloGaf is awesome[/

Is this inbetween the endless BR/AR wars that rage on there?

 

[scently]

Correction, its a Falcon.

Yea, sorry about that, was probably cos I was thinking about the Hornet when I was typng that. Have fixed.



Is this inbetween the endless BR/AR wars that rage on there?

Yeah, they can be quite funny sometimes.

 

[kots]

Yes, let's cut the game down to far less enemies than Halo 3, use uninteresting gears of war flocking AI on everything, make it a single player affair, and toss in Natal for good measure. And now let's run at 1080p. Do you see the flaw in resolution bulletpoints for anything above SD 480 with total disregard for the COMPLETE PACKAGE? "But game/system X does/doesn't yadda yadda... this means game/system Y is garbage/awesome, 1.5/next-gen, blah blah blah" ALL ignoring the forest for the trees.

I suppose we could have more enemies and even better AI - lets just run the game in 540p and be ok with it. I want the game to look nice , it's not that hard to find the balance between units/ai/lighting and proper image quality.
Maybe i'm asking too much from Bungie ..have they entered the HD era yet ?

 

[Karamazov]

hmmmmm, did Ps1, N64, and Sega Saturn use it?

i can't remember.

i remember the box of the game "buggy boy" for my amstrad CPC 6128, the pics on it were from the atari ST version, at the time i was a kid and was wondering why my game did not look like on the pictures printed on the box !

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I suppose we could have more enemies and even better AI - lets just run the game in 540p and be ok with it. I want the game to look nice , it's not that hard to find the balance between units/ai/lighting and proper image quality.
Maybe i'm asking too much from Bungie ..have they entered the HD era yet ?

Yes. They're developing for HD consoles aren't they? They just choose not to spend their system resources on rendering 720p or above, like many best-selling developers. And FYI, lots of last-gen games rendered sub-SD resolutions too, only we didn't have the internet to unearth and grumble about developer choices back then

 

[AzBat]

i remember the box of the game "buggy boy" for my amstrad CPC 6128, the pics on it were from the atari ST version, at the time i was a kid and was wondering why my game did not look like on the pictures printed on the box !

I had the same feelings about the original Wing Commander game on the PC. Loved the box art they showed in the magazine ads, but when I got the game, I thought it looked nothing like it. LOL

Tommy McClain

 

[Acert93]

I suppose we could have more enemies and even better AI - lets just run the game in 540p and be ok with it. I want the game to look nice , it's not that hard to find the balance between units/ai/lighting and proper image quality.
Maybe i'm asking too much from Bungie ..have they entered the HD era yet ?

So another vote for graphics > gameplay?

I wonder whatever happened to the day that graphics served gameplay and fun, not the reverse.

 

[ShadowRunner]

Is the gameplay/AI really the thing that would hold back the games IQ? I would expect most of the AI to be processed on the CPU for instance.

To me it seems silly to assume that improved IQ would have to have a negative effect on gameplay. It may be that dialing back on the lighting quality would be enough to attain 720p 2xAA, without affecting the number of enemies or AI at all. In fact improved IQ would probably have a more positive effect on gameplay than improved lighting. Again its silly to assume there must be a tradeoff between IQ and gameplay, when a tradeoff between IQ and other graphical features is the case usually.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Is the gameplay/AI really the thing that would hold back the games IQ? I would expect most of the AI to be processed on the CPU for instance.

To me it seems silly to assume that improved IQ would have to have a negative effect on gameplay. It may be that dialing back on the lighting quality would be enough to attain 720p 2xAA, without affecting the number of enemies or AI at all. In fact improved IQ would probably have a more positive effect on gameplay than improved lighting. Again its silly to assume there must be a tradeoff between IQ and gameplay, when a tradeoff between IQ and other graphical features is the case usually.

Yes, but increased models and increased polygons per model is going to have an effect on your rendering pipeline.

Put it this way. Not only do the models have more polygons but their weapons have more polygons than the entire model did in H3.

So for 40 enemies you have greater than 2x the number of polygons, or in other words the equivalent of rendering 80 enemies in Halo 3 detail.

Of course, their LOD system is going to come into effect here also so they have save some here and there but there is no doubt that the GPU is doing more work in Reach than Halo 3, just rendering the units.

And that's before we even get into the scenery and set pieces which I'm going to guess will be more detailed or at the very least more consistent than Halo 3.

But it's doubtful any setpiece is going to have as much poly's as a corridor shooter. It's an open world game with more possible setpieces on screen at any one time.

Given equal rendering power a corridor shooter will always have the potential to look better.

Regards,
SB

 

[NRP]

It may be that dialing back on the lighting quality would be enough to attain 720p 2xAA, without affecting the number of enemies or AI at all. In fact improved IQ would probably have a more positive effect on gameplay than improved lighting.

I disagree here. IMO good lighting is more important than meeting a 720p checkbox. Being able to acquire targets, differentiate enemies/friends, and just generally see better is more important than a marginal increase in rendering resolution. I'd rather have some AA/AF than more resolution.

 

[Acert93]

I disagree here. IMO good lighting is more important than meeting a 720p checkbox. Being able to acquire targets, differentiate enemies/friends, and just generally see better is more important than a marginal increase in rendering resolution. I'd rather have some AA/AF than more resolution.

Agreed. MSAA and AF add more to visual integrity than resolution alone in most shooting games.

 

[(((interference)))]

Agreed. MSAA and AF add more to visual integrity than resolution alone in most shooting games.

From the 1 in game screenshot we have, can anyone tell what kind of texture filtering they're using?

They've already confirmed it didn't come from photomode, so it wouldn't have any additional post-processing to improve IQ.