GRID

[standing ovation]

Remember drooling over Heavenly Sword visuals only to find out, upon release, how hollow its game play really was? GRID looks to be the Heavenly Sword of the driving genre. Though it was designed to appeal to an even wider audience than DiRT (or the ToCA series for that matter), it won't. And here's why: the developer has put more stock in cosmetics than substance.

DiRT is a simulator retrofitted for casual play. Automobile behavior is believable without being overbearing. This gives it a play depth that can appeal to enthusiasts while retaining a fair bit of simplicity and steady progression that casual players find attractive. As far as appealing to a broad audience goes, THIS is a marketers' dream.

GRID, on the other hand, is an arcade game that feigns simulation. It graphics and damage modeling scream realism, but its play mechanics aren't as believable. In all likelihood, the retail product will lack the fun factor casual players are looking for AND the dynamics gear heads find so endearing.

Personally, I think Codemasters should not have abandoned the DiRT formula with GRID, nor ToCA's race driving sensibilities. (From what I've read, GRID is a departure from the ToCA franchise and seems to be more about managing races than actually driving in them.)

 

[Tap In]

Remember drooling over Heavenly Sword visuals only to find out, upon release, how hollow its game play really was? GRID looks to be the Heavenly Sword of the driving genre....

well so far every reviewer who has played the full game says it is anything but; it is feature rich and diverse according to most of the reviews I've read. they are all posted in this thread.

Full on fun racing is what it feels like after playing the same 3 races over and over on the demo, I am having a lot more fun with it than most racers I've tried (I loathe sim racers).

 

[Ike Turner]

DiRT is a simulator retrofitted for casual play. Automobile behavior is believable without being overbearing.

uh?
I stopped reading right there..

 

[Gitaroo]

I played the GRID demo on PS3 and PC with 8X CSAA...... I love the replay, but I still think GT5p looks better. Only problem is the low res shadow mapping in GT5.

 

[standing ovation]

well so far every reviewer who has played the full game says it is anything but; it is feature rich and diverse according to most of the reviews I've read. they are all posted in this thread.

Full on fun racing is what it feels like after playing the same 3 races over and over on the demo, I am having a lot more fun with it than most racers I've tried (I loathe sim racers).

Well, you seem to like it and that's cool. I am still betting GRID will not perform as well as DiRT at retail.

 

[standing ovation]

uh?
I stopped reading right there..

Let me explain.

The DiRT interface is marvelously simplistic, but its underlying engine is mired in detail, like the impact various systems have on drivability. Of course this isn't an exhaustive simulation -- we're talking about a game console after all, not a computing grid!

But because the game is so accessible, players needn't worry about the particulars (like setting final drive and gear ratios, adjusting camber and toe angles, rebound and bump limits, etc.) to advance, though tweaking them will begin to unravel its arcade sensibilities...

That Group B racers (the classics) are considerably more difficult to pilot than recent cars is refreshingly realistic. Newer rides, after all, are the beneficiaries of modern technology.

 

[ultragpu]

personally i prefer the ps3's version for its superior shadowing system. but if we hav gt5p in the comparison i think visually it's in another league to Grid. GT5 runs at higher res, higher fps, much realistic lighting, much higher car polycount both in/exterior. and much cleaner look would definetly have my vote. grid is a highly stylized arcade racer with lighting so unatrual and stylized i find it hard to swallow. photorealism over overblooming anyday. yes, grid has the damage, but so will gt5p in a few months so wats the deal? i say we make more comparisons when gt5p's damage patch comes in.

 

[Arwin]

After having been disappointed by the PS3 demo initially, I downloaded the 360 version of the demo as well, and then as a bonus I came across a PS3 retail copy ready to play in a demo pod in a store. First of all, having now tried the city track in the Mustang, I have to say that did impress me. It looks very good indeed, with great effects, good modelling, great lighting, etc. Even the driving model turned out more than acceptable. So from here, I went back to the PS3 demo to try the same event, and sure enough, there too it's quite impressive, though indeed with a bit more slowdown.

However, then in the 360 demo I went back to the 20 car circuit racing, and it looked terrible. Really, what a shocking difference - almost if they were using a different engine altogether. My reaction was exactly the same as my initial reaction to the PS3 demo. So the game is terribly uneven, which I suspect explains why they end up being valued so differently.

Finally, when I got my hands on the PS3 retail copy in the store, I tried out the Le Mans track, because I know that track very well and it would help assess the quality of the graphics. And again, here I was hugely disappointed. The driving model again was quite decent in the Supra's I was driving, but the graphics were very bland. Only near start finish do you glimpse something that reminds you of the city track in the demo, the rest impressed me even less than the GT4 version of Le Mans on the PS2, to be honest. Sad.

And unfortunately I noticed that a lot of the tracks in the retail version are in fact circuit tracks not in the city.

I don't think this game is for me, though again, I did like the demo a fair bit (drove it without any assists and with the view locked to the cockpit). I especially like the fairly dramatic suspension effects in this game. Overall the suspension seems to have gotten a lot of attention, and regardless of whether it is realistic or not, I like it. Especially in jumps, and landing after a jump - that, at least, feels more satisfying than in GT5P, and I also enjoy at least looking at the damage more than I expected to.

I haven't tried wheel controls yet on either version, but I haven't heard good things about that so far.

All in all, I think GRID isn't for me, but I would like to play a little bit more city tracks just because I do enjoy that experience in this game. In the end though, it may well be that the demo suffices for me.

 

[Cyan]

Some people might agree with Tap In and Shifty, regarding the visuals of the game. From Videogamer.com review (score: 9):

http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/race_driver_one/review-2.html

GRID looks stunning, somehow managing to appear realistic and dream-like at the same time. Key to its impressive visuals are highly detailed tracks and cars, stunning lighting and a damage model that can only really be bettered by Burnout Paradise. Seeing such a graphically rich game run at a smooth frame rate is quite something, with some beautiful motion blur effects brilliantly disguising the 30 frames a second frame rate. Other than the odd occasion when there's a big pile up you won't notice a dip in the smooth refresh rate at all.


GRID looks even better in motionThe all-round presentation is top notch, with fully 3D menus, superb audio work and even an in-game assistant that says your name - if your name is on the large list you're able to choose from. Although it's hard to argue with Gran Turismo 5 Prologue's attempt at photo realism, GRID is simply a more visually pleasing game to look at. Show me a Gran Turismo where an AI racer spins out on a corner, crashes into a road-side barrier, rolls and then takes out two other drivers, and then it might be able to hold a candle to Codemasters' quite brilliant technical achievement. Even the loading screens look brilliant, giving you game stats and updating you on your progress towards achievements.

GRID gave me what Forza 2 lacked. A true feeling of competition, 20 cars on screen, a great AI -for instance, if you use the Flashback feature and the AI made a mistake, it does a different thing the 2nd time around-....

It gave me a truely interesting Career mode, too -you are part of a team not a random individual collecting shiny cars- and evenly matched races -in FM2 you are basically racing against 1 car for the win with no competitors to be seen for miles in your rear view mirror- and I remember very close races for much of the race (4-5 laps) online, which is amazingly fun and realistic.

Ironically, it's more of a simulator than Forza 2 in many regards. GRID is, from now on until a great sim comes out, the best racing game on consoles this generation, in my opinion.

FM2 wasn't a step forward for the series I guess, mostly because there was no competition to base anything off of.

The racing simulation genre (on Ps3 and 360) has become stagnant and almost non existant. It's a shame, actually.

That's why we really need GTR to do well on consoles.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Some people might agree with Tap In and Shifty,

Just to be clear on this, my original sentiments were only in reaction to the original 'in game' trailer. I haven't looked at gameplay footage nor expressed an opinion.

 

[Arwin]

Regarding the AI in this game, mistakes are semi-scripted to be spectacular, I guess, but it can turn out in a rather odd fashion sometimes. As I said I only played the retail version a little while in a store, but after some spinning at Le Mans in the (badly geared, so at least here you'll want to change ratios) Supra I was driving behind at a reasonable distance behind the number 11 I think and there were no other cars in the immediate vicinity. Just out of nowhere, before a weak turn was even starting, he spun out and flipped over. Kind of funny, although it did break the illusion a little bit more.

One thing I agree though, is that the effects are successful in creating smooth visuals that give 60fps a run for their money! That's certainly something interesting for the future.

 

[Cyan]

Regarding the AI in this game, mistakes are semi-scripted to be spectacular, I guess, but it can turn out in a rather odd fashion sometimes. As I said I only played the retail version a little while in a store, but after some spinning at Le Mans in the (badly geared, so at least here you'll want to change ratios) Supra I was driving behind at a reasonable distance behind the number 11 I think and there were no other cars in the immediate vicinity. Just out of nowhere, before a weak turn was even starting, he spun out and flipped over. Kind of funny, although it did break the illusion a little bit more.

One thing I agree though, is that the effects are successful in creating smooth visuals that give 60fps a run for their money! That's certainly something interesting for the future.

I figure you'd give the game a second chance. I am not sure if the AI of this game is scripted or not, but it's a "human" AI.

I mean, it doesn't always follow the *recommended* racing line and every opponent car drives different (it's amazing in that regard), it does respect your driving without recurring to easy braking, it's a great AI to drive in packs (like in real life) because of that, and sometimes it feels like you are playing against humans, so it enriches the SP player part of the game quite a lot.

I think you'd be surprised with what you can find in this game, but I don't know. :smile:

Edit: Shifty_Geezer, point taken mate. Even if I somewhat knew that I just tried to point out that the game looks great as it is, although the lighting is a bit worse in comparison with what had been attempted to show in the trailer and what you see in-game, but it still looks great to me.

 

[ninzel]

On the subject of damage if we are talking reality,then in the real world if you hit a car hard enough to damage it to the point of being able to see the damage , you would most likely be out for the day altogether.So is it really more realistic to have damage that at the same time let's you carry on than no damage at all?
They are both just different levels of fake like all video game mental constructs.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

I have been playing the demo for a while. At first i didn´t take any notice of it due to the early comments, but once i started to play it for a second time the demo started growing on me. The key word is "addictive". This game brought to me sensations of "Stunt car racer" or "Lotus challengue" in the 386 era. It has nothing to do with simulation or reality, it has to do with fun. The online is really a blast, really addictive, in a COD 4 league, and nothing of this sensation was given by GT5 prologue in the online section.
One thing that i would emphasize in the game is the feeling you get surpassing other cars, strangely it produces a joy not felt in other games.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Let me explain....

The DiRT interface is marvelously simplistic, but its underlying engine is mired in detail, like the impact various systems have on drivability. Of course this isn't an exhaustive simulation -- we're talking about a game console after all, not a computing grid!

But because the game is so accessible, players needn't worry about the particulars (like setting final drive and gear ratios, adjusting camber and toe angles, rebound and bump limits, etc.) to advance, though tweaking them will begin to unravel its arcade sensibilities...

That Group B racers (the classics) are considerably more difficult to pilot than recent cars is refreshingly realistic. Newer rides, after all, are the beneficiaries of modern technology.

Dude. First of all you dont need to fine tune stuff like gear ratios and cambers etc in any game. Not in Forza not in GT5 (only if you want to beat lap times vs other people online), you can, but you certainly dont have to do it.

Second. The fastest way to take a corner in Dirt, is to BRAKE AND ACCELERATE at the same time, dont tell me this game is realistic. The fastest way to take a corner in real life (on roads\tracks not gravel\dirt ofc) is to hit the corner apex at the highest possible speed without loosing grip and accelerating all the way after you hit the apex. This is the fastest way to take a corner in any simulation game, if its not something is wrong.

Have you driven a car in real life? I would call Dirt a lot of things but its certainly not realistic.

As far as Tap in comments on this game, all i can say is that anybody who claims this game is the best looking driving game out there hasn't played GT5P. GT5P is quite simply in another league graphically.

Grid has fantastic car models by the way (not as refined as GT5) with several iterations of damage for each and 5 models each for LOD. I also was not getting into a numbers pissing contest but 4xAA adds to the graphical fidelity in a much more meaningful way for most people's eyes than the other numbers you mentioned with regard to Image Quality.

and yes I've played GT5P on an HDTV and it looked jaggie in game compared to Grid and much more static on and around the track with no damage. The replays and garage in GT5P are PGR4-photo level quality though. it just does not transfer to the in game look.

GT5P runs at 4x AA in 720p or 2x AA in 1080p. The fact that you claim GT5P to have more jaggies is, lets just be polite and say, rather funny.

 

[Tap In]

Dude. ...GT5P runs at 4x AA in 720p or 2x AA in 1080p. The fact that you claim GT5P to have more jaggies is, lets just be polite and say, rather funny.

maybe it was the shimmering I was distracted by then that looks like jaggies when I did indeed play it. Dude.

and it's called an opinion... you have yours, i'll keep mine.

 

[DaJuice]

Switching between the Grid demo (PS3) and GT5P, there's no doubt that GT looks cleaner. I'm gonna try forcing 720p, curious to see how it looks in lower res but with the extra AA...

 

[Duke]

Imo GRID is too blurry or hazy, dunno how to word it properly plus it's 30FPS.. It looks pretty good but GT5P is just so impressive.. it's crystal clear, the lighting's amazing, the car models as well and the textures on the road and the overall quality of the tracks etc.. the overall look is just on another level AND in 60FPS (albeit with some framerate problems).

 

[liolio]

GT5 Prologue (demo) = 1280x1080 (2x AA) - garage/pit/showroom is 1920x1080 with no AA or 1280x720 with 4xAA

From the post it in the tech section.

 

[AlNom]

Folks, can we please cease with the comparisons and discuss GRID only?