GRID

[patsu]

When in-motion, GRID has lower resolution, lower framerate, and less realistic driving model. Visually, one goes for elegance and sexiness, the other has damage and lot's of action. I just don't think we can compare them. I see little point in boasting GRID's graphics as the "most impressive".

 

[Ike Turner]

Meh GT looks far better than Grid imo

Yeah if you count messed up/popping shadows as a feature..

 

[pjbliverpool]

When in-motion, GRID has lower resolution, lower framerate, and less realistic driving model.

Well that depends on what platform your playing it on Also the driving model isn't really connected to the visuals but more a matter of preference.

That said, I thought PGR4 looked better than Grid. Or at least more detailed and realistic.

 

[patsu]

Well that depends on what platform your playing it on Also the driving model isn't really connected to the visuals but more a matter of preference.

Yes but driving model can make the action look fake/floaty/exaggerated. It's part of the perception/experience. For what it's worth, visual is also a matter of preference.

Oh so true about platform. I had restricted scope to consoles only given the forum we are in (I believe the article is reviewing the 360 version).

 

[djskribbles]

the games have different looks. GT5P certainly looks more realistic, while Grid has a softer cinematic look to it. Grid is definitely cleaner, but i personally prefer the look of GT5P more overall.

 

[Tap In]

driving model has nothing to do with the graphics.

I can not believe that's even being put out there. the IQ of Grid is better than GT5P and PGR4 due to the anti-aliasing x4 (360). the atmosphere with the amount of details and debris and outside-the-race-track activity as well as the amazing crashes and damage modeling add to that superiority.

 

[patsu]

Suit yourself.

Impressive does not necessarily mean flawless. GT5P impressed/fooled a lot of people because of its realistic look. Like I said, when in-motion, gamers will take in the driving and the damage model as part of the impression/experience.

 

[Tap In]

nobody ever claimed "flawless" nor most resembles real life. Just most impressive.

from a graphical only perspective, on consoles (and PC from what I've read) it is the best overall visual impression of a racing game. Those of us in these chairs have only seen it from 3 points of view. the reviewers who are touting these graphics have seen all the venues and day/night cycles.

Edit:
and taking the driving model into account is not visual (it's an illusion in the mind, not the eyes) as compared to the damage model which is most certainly visual and represented by graphics.

 

[djskribbles]

driving model has nothing to do with the graphics.

I can not believe that's even being put out there. the IQ of Grid is better than GT5P and PGR4 due to the anti-aliasing x4 (360). the atmosphere with the amount of details and debris and outside-the-race-track activity as well as the amazing crashes and damage modeling add to that superiority.

if you want to compare the games on a technical level, Grid (on 360) runs at 30fps, with 4xAA. GT5P runs at 60fps, and at 1280x1080 with AAx2, or 1280x720 with AAx4. and why does car models have nothing to do with the graphics? if anything, including damage modeling in this discussion is what i would consider irrelevant.

i can understand how you prefer Grid over GT5P or PGR4, but please don't say it looks better as if it were a fact... everyone has their own opinion.
curious... have you even seen GT5P in person?

 

[patsu]

from a graphical only perspective, on consoles (and PC from what I've read) it is the best overall visual impression of a racing game.

The sound bite sounds good, but I don't think you'll find lot's of takers. You already saw a few non-believers from GT5P and PGR folks.

Edit:
and taking the driving model into account is not visual (it's an illusion in the mind, not the eyes) as compared to the damage model which is most certainly visual and represented by graphics.

It's a moot point to debate. Impression is a subjective experience. People will consider various factors consciously or subconsciously, as I did, when presented with a picture.

 

[Tap In]

if you want to compare the games on a technical level, Grid (on 360) runs at 30fps, with 4xAA. GT5P runs at 60fps, and at 1280x1080 with AAx2, or 1280x720 with AAx4. and why does car models have nothing to do with the graphics?

i can understand how you prefer Grid over GT5P or PGR4, but please don't say it looks better as if it were a fact.
curious... have you even seen GT5P in person?

where did I ever say that car models have nothing to do with graphics. Patsu was referring to DRIVING model -how the cars handle.

Grid has fantastic car models by the way (not as refined as GT5) with several iterations of damage for each and 5 models each for LOD. I also was not getting into a numbers pissing contest but 4xAA adds to the graphical fidelity in a much more meaningful way for most people's eyes than the other numbers you mentioned with regard to Image Quality.

and yes I've played GT5P on an HDTV and it looked jaggie in game compared to Grid and much more static on and around the track with no damage. The replays and garage in GT5P are PGR4-photo level quality though. it just does not transfer to the in game look.

the Replays in grid are the best I've ever seen and the in game quality hardly suffers (if at all) compared to the replays. (again I'm judging by the 360 demo with less tearing and twice the AA as the PS3 demo which you guys are comparing to).

 

[Tap In]

... Impression is a subjective experience. People will consider various factors consciously or subconsciously, as I did, when presented with a picture.

you're a smart guy patsu, always with rational thoughts... but come on, arguing illusions of the mind with with a visually graphic representation of a game in the most prestigious graphic forum on the WWW?

 

[djskribbles]

oh please... don't make it sound like the 360 version is that much better, because its not. even if the ps3 version was cleaner, i would still think GT5P looks better. and not i'm sure not all of us are comparing it to the ps3 version. Ostepop has both consoles, so i'm sure he played it on 360 (could be wrong).

whatever, agree to disagree. this is way OT.

 

[Tap In]

oh please... don't make it sound like the 360 version is that much better, because its not. even if the ps3 version was cleaner, i would still think GT5P looks better. and not i'm sure not all of us are comparing it to the ps3 version. Ostepop has both consoles, so i'm sure he played it on 360 (could be wrong).

I was referring to you and patsu the only people I've addressed in this thread.

ok, I see your agree to disagree and agree :smile:

 

[patsu]

you're a smart guy patsu, always with rational thoughts... but come on, arguing illusions of the mind with with a visually graphic representation of a game in the most prestigious graphic forum on the WWW?

As I always argued, it's the total package, consciously and subconsciously. Even in a split second impulse purchase situation, human mind went through 12-20 steps of decisions extremely quickly subconsciously. This is why I think the sound bite will have few takers. There is no objective framework for "The best overall visual impression" and is a can of worm.

I think if you want to hype the game, using specific and objective indicators like 4xAA etc will find more receptive ears (and post videos !).

 

[Tap In]

As I always argued, it's the total package, consciously and subconsciously. Even in a split second impulse purchase situation, human mind went through 12-20 steps of decisions extremely quickly subconsciously. This is why I think the sound bite will have few takers. There is no objective framework for "The best overall visual impression" and is a can of worm.

I think if you want to hype the game, using specific and objective indicators like 4xAA etc will find more receptive ears (and post videos !).

I was not the one hyping it in such a manner. I reiterated what a reviewer stated and reposed the question that shifty implied with his making of the thread several weeks ago upon release of the first in game media. so I am hardly alone. Several people came to the defense of GT5 after seeing that comment (and thread) and I replied to them.

my own impressions mirror those conclusions, but of course it is subjective. I believe, outside of the GT fan club, you will find a lot more people with the same conclusion. read the grid thread on Gaf for instance.

interview with some technical details

 

[DrJay24]

read the grid thread on Gaf for instance.

I would avoid it, it's a proxy war for the PS3 vs 360. One's a 30fps arcade racer with special effects which look great. The other is trying to simulate real life and look great. Apples and oranges.

 

[patsu]

I just did. There is not much discussion on the visuals here: http://ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=299544 (EDIT: Found another better one here: http://ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=292501)

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great game. As usual amongst praises, you see occasional complains about framerate, PGR comparisons, DiRT references, etc.


A typical GT5P thread has lot's of comparisons with real photos (http://ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=215220) and real driving videos. That tells you informally how heavily vested people are about GT5P visuals.

I would avoid it, it's a proxy war for the PS3 vs 360. One's a 30fps arcade racer with special effects which look great. The other is trying to simulate real life and look great. Apples and oranges.

Exactly why i said it's a can of worm (GRID is cross platform though).

 

[Tap In]

...One's a 30fps arcade racer with special effects which look great. The other is trying to simulate real life and look great. Apples and oranges.

true

then again in real life cars crash and get damaged.

but I agree, those that argue for GT graphics are doing so based on the realistic lighting and car models. the grid graphics are a complete package creating a completely different atmosphere. almost every review I've read gives grid the graphics edge over PGR4 and GT5P. so from a GRAPHICAL perspective, maybe more people appreciate the whole package than a realistic representation of light and car shape (and as I've learned in this thread, driving model enthusiasts who take that into account as part of "graphics").

 

[Tap In]

interview with some technical details

thought this deserved its own post... excerpts..

Nick Phillips who demonstrated the simply incredible detail within each car, indeed the DBR9 being shown was made up of more than 70 pieces, this enables the superb crash damage modelling and taking into account that at least 5 versions are made of every car (cars with lower levels of detail are used depending on their distance from the player) and you get an idea on the vast amount of work involved. More than 40 days just designing and building the outside and at least 20 days on each interior. Add to this the handling refinement and agreeing licensing with manufacturers and its more than 2 months in realising one car. “We’ve been making cars for over two years” comments, Nick ”I couldn’t say the exact number of artists involved due to the way the work is outsourced but its considerable.”
...

VVV: “GRID, how would you describe it?”

Clive: “Our whole philosophy is it’s about the racing, that’s what’s we’re all about. When we first set out to make the game we took a long hard look at what was happening in the world of racing games at that time and what we saw was a lot of games doing modding, a lot of games were about creating your car, putting pretty patterns on the side of it and none of them appeared to be focusing on the core which was fast, exciting, aggressive racing so we pretty much decided that was what we wanted to do and wanted to try and distil that into your 5 to 6 minute experience, so take everything from where the lights go on the start grid right through to the chequered flag then make an exciting experience for the gamer and get back to what racing is all about.”...

VVV: “So we’ve got this super competitive game but let’s talk about the handling, now this issue has been very contentious between the hardcore racing community and mass market requirements, you’ve definitely moved into a much more arcade style. Was there a big design decision to be made at the beginning of this project?”

Clive: “Definitely it’s always a hard decision knowing where exactly to pitch this title and we had to try and appeal to the widest possible audience and you know I think people will say we might be a little bit more arcade-like but I think we’ve tried to retain realistic handling, a sense of realism within the game but just try and make it a little bit more assessable to a wider audience and that is important to us, we want as many people as possible to enjoy our games, especially our racing titles. So yes conscious but not to the point where I feel we’ve left behind a lot of our core audience we’ve had from previous titles and I’m always keen to point out to people that the options are there to turn off the assists that perhaps make the game more assessable from a driving point of view and open it up to those that perhaps like a tougher driving challenge.”....

VVV: “So you’ve got this big package and loads for racing fans to explore, but the graphics are clearly very special and have blown us away on some courses, now we always see them making steps forward, are we seeing any limits of the EGO graphics system here, or can we look for even better to come from it in the future?”

Clive: “It’s a good question and EGO is evolving all the time, what you’re seeing now is EGO as of today and it’s been in development for over two years. We first saw it in Colin McRae DiRT and I think we’ve taken a real step up from what you saw in that, even with just a year between the two titles. I think you can say, never say never in terms of things getting better, there’s always going to be new features and improvements in terms of things we can make. We’ve had 50 to 60 engineers working on EGO over its two years so if we can continue at the rate the sky is almost the limit. I’m of the opinion that it is absolutely the finest racing game engine in the world today and I think that if you look at the visuals in GRID it’ll be hard for anyone to argue...

VVV: “It’s a massive package but if there is a key feature you’re most proud of, what is it?”

Clive: “I would say it’s the flashback feature which had to be carefully thought out, it’s one of those features that could have gone either way, making the game appear too easy or a bit of a cheat but I think with a game like GRID it is tough, we have got terminal damage in there, it is aggressive there is a lot of car on car, you do get damage, you do wipe out on occasion. To have that opportunity just to replay a section, I think its great and not only that but I see it as a good learning tool for people as well, if people take a corner badly, they don’t hit the apex, they run into a wall, there’s that opportunity and they can try it again. They can go back and get the line better so I think not only does it let people progress through the game and help them, I think it’ll help people learn to be better drivers as well and I think that’s a great thing for any racing game.”...

cool damage montage video <<here