Graphical effects that are standard by now but shouldn't
- Thread starter L. Scofield
- Start date
L. Scofield
Veteran
I don't think we'll get rid of chromatic aberration anytime soon. The contamination has spread even to anime:
I would like to add one: 30 fps because "it feels more cinematic"
Photographers and videographers are putting huge amount of money to lenses that are manufactured (special nano coatings) to eliminate CA and other lens aberrations. Even more money is spent to reduce the grain (the quality of a sensor is measured mainly by the amount of grain).
Shallow depth of field on the other hand is worth big bucks (all the most expensive lenses have very wide apertures = shallow DOF). Focus is one of the key techniques in grabbing the attention and telling a story (both in still photos and in movies). Unfortunately games are interactive, and that makes focus based narrative challenging to do properly. If the director cannot control the viewer, it is not going to work. People get annoyed if they want to look somewhere and they cannot because of the blur. Best directors (and photographers) are experts in controlling the viewers eye movement. Focus trickery is challenging in games because you don't have full control about the composition of the image. My personal experience about photography is that I spend most of my time in fine tuning the image edges ensuring that the viewer doesn't find anything interesting there (this of course includes Photoshopping things away from the edges if the perfect composition needs it).
Another problem in DOF algorithms used in games is the unstability and limited blur kernel size. The blur NEEDS to be stable and smooth in order to draw as little attention as possible. It's sole function is to force the viewer to focus elsewehere (the important part of the scene). Games usually do not achieve this well because of the performance considerations. This draws attention to the blurred regions = adds frustration.
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I would like to add one: 30 fps because "it feels more cinematic"
Photographers and videographers are putting huge amount of money to lenses that are manufactured (special nano coatings) to eliminate CA and other lens aberrations. Even more money is spent to reduce the grain (the quality of a sensor is measured mainly by the amount of grain).
Shallow depth of field on the other hand is worth big bucks (all the most expensive lenses have very wide apertures = shallow DOF). Focus is one of the key techniques in grabbing the attention and telling a story (both in still photos and in movies). Unfortunately games are interactive, and that makes focus based narrative challenging to do properly. If the director cannot control the viewer, it is not going to work. People get annoyed if they want to look somewhere and they cannot because of the blur. Best directors (and photographers) are experts in controlling the viewers eye movement. Focus trickery is challenging in games because you don't have full control about the composition of the image. My personal experience about photography is that I spend most of my time in fine tuning the image edges ensuring that the viewer doesn't find anything interesting there (this of course includes Photoshopping things away from the edges if the perfect composition needs it).
Another problem in DOF algorithms used in games is the unstability and limited blur kernel size. The blur NEEDS to be stable and smooth in order to draw as little attention as possible. It's sole function is to force the viewer to focus elsewehere (the important part of the scene). Games usually do not achieve this well because of the performance considerations. This draws attention to the blurred regions = adds frustration.
I agree fully about the 30fps, but there is some truth in that because effects like chromatic aberration have existed unintentionally in the past, it makes sense in games like Alien: Isolation to recreate that 80s movie feel, for instance.
As for focus/depth of field, Uncharted did a great job there, doing so only when aiming somewhere and then bringing the focus just there. Quite brilliant imho. They also only use blur when the camera moves really fast (or at least they did that in the first one, not sure actually if they kept it)
I agree; Uncharted's blurs worked very well for me. But then aiming is a special case for DOF.
Rurouni
Veteran
Aw.... you should use spoiler tag or something.... I'm going to watch that later when I'm back from work and now I know it's going to feature CA....
Anyway, I don't mind these effects as long as it isn't overdone. I remember playing a game where any camera movement (slow or fast) produce MB... that's annoying. CA that's uniformly applied also annoying, especially if it is very strong.
L. Scofield
Veteran
Too bad that one is true.I would like to add one: 30 fps because "it feels more cinematic"
Better to be prepared
Has the fad of screen-obliterating god-rays cooled off?
From experience, it's a lot more subtle now than some of the God-and-all-his-Angels-coming-down-from-the-sky kind of blinding monstrosities we used to see in the past.
Fake screen space god rays have cooled off. Better implementations that ray march the shadow maps and collect light source in-scatter (according to air aerosol/particle density) are on rise. These techniques produce very nice realistic results.
@L. Scofield what anime was that? looks like something from KyoAni and they already uses (subtle and heavy) CA since long time ago. Its like their style. But their implementation never looks migraine-inducing like on video games (i hate you Crysis 3 CA, thankfully it can be disabled).
btw does the distortion square uses on FF XV is also CA? its not the usual red-fringe / double image. Its more like a fringe that you will normally see in object edges in photographs. It also changes colour according to ToD and sun.
i totally prefer that than the more popular red-fringe CA.
btw does the distortion square uses on FF XV is also CA? its not the usual red-fringe / double image. Its more like a fringe that you will normally see in object edges in photographs. It also changes colour according to ToD and sun.
i totally prefer that than the more popular red-fringe CA.
L. Scofield
Veteran
It's a new one from them called Hibike! Euphonium. It helps that the effect is used only in a few shots.
Pictures?
look at the mountain range edge
its also appears on closer objects (look at the tree branch, its subtle but its there and on these peoples)
its also appears on closer objects (look at the tree branch, its subtle but its there and on these peoples)
steveOrino
Regular
I agree with the filmic effects and their demise.. DoF is fine AS LONG AS its kept to cameras that are out of the control of the player. Player controlled camera DoF doesn't work on a flat fixed plane imo (display) since your eyes aren't doing the focusing.
I just want specular aliasing to go away. I looks terrible and its still everywhere.
I just want specular aliasing to go away. I looks terrible and its still everywhere.
Indeed, it's very nice to see things like this.
https://www.shadertoy.com/view/Xdf3zB
https://t.co/xnRblTCn3u (.PDF)
Billy Idol
Legend
Meh, instead of enhancing effects no one (except B3D nerds) sees a difference, devs should bother about the basics: antialiasing. Get rid of the effing shimmering that plague nearly all games out there...e.g. Bloodborne, I am looking at you!
All the enhancement we get in graphics get destroyed by right in your face aliasing.
Although it is unpopular here in this thread, but whatever RAD did with their AA solution should be investigated by other devs as well....
All the enhancement we get in graphics get destroyed by right in your face aliasing.
Although it is unpopular here in this thread, but whatever RAD did with their AA solution should be investigated by other devs as well....
AA certainly is important for image quality and BB would look lovely with some temporal AA.
Getting proper balance on image stability seems hard as many people do not like the slight blur that is needed. (Page 23. .PPTX)
I wonder if a option to select the reconstruction/resolve filter in options would be a good idea. (Something like in Gran Tourismo 5&6)
Rad seems to have MSAA with temporal + custom resolve and they render specular with something like this.
A survey of nonlinear prefiltering methods for efficient and accurate surface shading. Visualization and Computer Graphics
Here is more details on their pipeline.
http://blog.selfshadow.com/publications/s2013-shading-course/rad/s2013_pbs_rad_notes.pdf
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Sigfried1977
Legend
look at the mountain range edge
its also appears on closer objects (look at the tree branch, its subtle but its there and on these peoples)
I don't see anything resembling CA in any of the above shots.
Anyway, I think no effect should ever become a standard, and no effect should ever be outlawed completely either. That kind of thinking is just bollocks and I'm glad no dev with as much as a hint of visionary thinking is gonna give a single shit.
see the mountain range edge. There some "ringing" of color. So the change from mountain to sky is not harsh/sterile.
But its not "double image" like CA.
i dont know what is it called as. But it makes the game have objects that "blends" together without CA's headache/double image.
But its not "double image" like CA.
i dont know what is it called as. But it makes the game have objects that "blends" together without CA's headache/double image.
Sigfried1977
Legend
That is not CA. That's just bloom. Maybe with a little bit of DoF thrown in. It's a little too much if photorealism is what you're after, but then FFXV clearly isn't. I think it looks quite striking, especially the way it's shining through the characters' hair.
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