Got my 6970s today - Mixed bag so far...

My motherboard is a couple of years old (P5Q-D), and that rather sensibly has the second video slot on the bottom edge of the motherboard, ie about as far apart as you can make them. It's not like motherboard manufacturers don't know that two graphics cards side by side are going to heat each other up no matter what.
 
Man i had a p180 that i just got rid of . The case was really bad for cooling gpus. I moved to the nzxt phantom and my 9650 unlocked to 9670 dropped 15c with just the stock fans. I have another fan on the way. I can't max out the fans in the case because my heatsink goes into the side panel fan area.


:p

Me want! Back to the future!
 
My motherboard is a couple of years old (P5Q-D), and that rather sensibly has the second video slot on the bottom edge of the motherboard, ie about as far apart as you can make them.
How many slots apart is that? If it's more than two inbetween, finding SLI/CF bridges would be tough unless your mobo came with an extra-long set included.

Btw, what happens if you connect both bridges on a twin-card CF setup? Nothing in particular, or is there any speed advantage at all? No boot? Explosions and fire? :LOL:
 
How many slots apart is that? If it's more than two inbetween, finding SLI/CF bridges would be tough unless your mobo came with an extra-long set included.

Actually, I've had a quick look in the manual, and it's two slots apart. The second graphics slot is one up from the bottom. Still much better than side by side, and probably you need a bit of space to fit a two-slot cooler in there, or there wouldn't be enough case space unless you've got an upside down case like my Antec.
 
That article's totally wrong. 2 Raptors in RAID can merely whimper weakly at a good SSD's feet. Never hope to actually "kill" it. Mechanical drives can't hold a candle to a modern SSD in any other regard than capacity.
 
Grall I agree, but I would not say the article is totally wrong. Maybe the SSD they compared is not so great, they also halved the capacity of the HDD so they could use just the outer part of the platters which are faster, and they ignored random read tests. Only did write and read sequential tests. I could believe their results for that case.
 
Short-stroking the drive (thus making a bad value for money drive even worse) and only doing sequential tests is just terrible. It's not close to a real-world test at all. It'd be like comparing vidcards based solely on the 3DMark feature tests, and no actual games...

Well, that wasn't such a good analogy after all I think, but it's the best I can do right now. I'm suffrering from tea deficiency, so my brain is stuck in low gear. :LOL:
 
When using morphological AA, is there any true benefit or indeed any difference at all from increasing MSAA level? Do I get MSAA on top of the MLAA, or does MLAA override the MSAA? I've not seen a clear and concise description of how this stuff actually works on various levels of AA and the associated performance impact...
You can most certainly run MSAA and MLAA at the same time, either via the control panel or using in-game settings for the traditional AA. However, in the vast majority of cases, it's unadvised. In my experience, the difference either isn't noticeable and sometimes it's worse. The MLAA is a post-processing effect on top, which means it's trying to blur the edges in something that already has MSAA applied. The result ends up being the worst of both worlds, with shimmering textures with a muddy blur over them.
 
The result ends up being the worst of both worlds, with shimmering textures with a muddy blur over them.
Lets have a look at Mirror's Edge, probably the sharpest and cleanest looking game out there and see how much muddy it gets.

4*MSAA with MLAA:
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8281/mirrorsedge201101051815.jpg
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/8963/mirrorsedge201101051307.jpg
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/6172/mirrorsedge201101050316.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9470/mirrorsedge201101050318.jpg
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3228/mirrorsedge201101050320.jpg
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/3228/mirrorsedge201101050320.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/4295/mirrorsedge201101050322.jpg

MLAA is more than just an blur filter, to prove that it actually reconstructs the edges I'll show you these GTA4 screenshot, if it was just a blur the Ferris wheel wouldn't be looking like that.

Granted that AMD's solution isn't perfect...its still much better than not having it at all (well, in most of the cases). The level of blur it induces to the image depends from game to game (in case of Mirror's Edge is completely non-existent, I can post screenshots with no MSAA/MLAA to give you a comparison of sharpness but that will mean I have to play the game over again to take screenshots :p)...but for most of the games its completely worth turning it on.

The worst part about AMD's MLAA is actually how it affects the smaller texts in the User Interface, and even here it depends from game to game, it'll be un-noticeable in some tittles while in some you'll have fuzzy looking texts all over the UI.
 
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The reason some people think MLAA as done through the Catalyst control panel is a full screen blur is because it has relatively simple edge detection and can't distinguish the edges of text from the edges of things that need to be AA'd. To the MLAA algorithm used, the edge of text is just another sharp edge that needs to be AA'd. And since it doesn't work on sub-pixels like standard box MSAA the text ends up being really noticeably blurred.

Hence, while MLAA is a decent alternative for games where no other AA method works, it's still far far inferior to Developer enabled AA.

I can't wait until the day when there is no need for control panel AA except in old games because all developers have made it a top priority to release games with serious aliasing. IE - Until all developers make in game AA a top priority.

Regards,
SB
 
Granted that AMD's solution isn't perfect...its still much better than not having it at all (well, in most of the cases). The level of blur it induces to the image depends from game to game (in case of Mirror's Edge is completely non-existent, I can post screenshots with no MSAA/MLAA to give you a comparison of sharpness but that will mean I have to play the game over again to take screenshots :p)...but for most of the games its completely worth turning it on.
I think you are misinterpreting what my point was. Or maybe I just worded it very poorly, but I prefer the explanation that puts the blame on you.

I agree that it doesn't tend to blur the overall image at all. While it does sometimes create a flattened look that's more noticeable in certain games, there's enough evidence already online showing that the people claiming that MLAA lowers texture quality are just seeing things.

What I'm saying is that MLAA + MSAA is in most cases a waste. I have no doubt that Mirror's Edge looks better than without any AA applied at all. What I'm saying is that in most games I've tried out - including UE3 games - it makes almost no improvement at all over just choosing one or the other.

Maybe Mirror's Edge actually does benefit from having both because of how much of the design is angular, but I would be interested in comparison shots of the ones you posted above with either just MSAA or just MLAA and see if much a difference can be discerned. In my experience, it does not.

As an example of how it occasionally makes things worse, in Half-Life 2 it makes the edges (not the image) has that "cardboard cutout" look that sometimes happens with MSAA and the MLAA on top seems to accentuate that. As another example, Dead Space looks much worse with the software AA applied and MLAA on than with just MLAA alone.

It makes sense if you think about it. MLAA is a post-process effect, so it's trying to blur out the edges and angular corners. MSAA being applied beforehand gives MLAA nothing to do or confuses it.

There may be examples where having both on would be superior (like a game that has a lot of angular edges and a lot of jaggy shadow effects), but my point was that sometimes MLAA is better, sometimes traditional methods are better, but in most cases the quality improvement of having both on at the same time is negligible. Of course, if he's running two 6970 cards in Crossfire, maybe my point is moot anyways because it's not like he's going to lose much in performance.
 
This is why I said that MLAA reminds me of HQ2X. I really don't like the way it affects all edges. It almost makes the game seem sort of "cell shaded" due to how it reworks the image.

I imagine that some people will like it though, just as some people like HQ2X-style scalers.

I'm all about SSAA. I'll happily pay the price for that image quality. I have a 6950 on a mere 1360x768 TV and try to run things with 8X SSAA.
 
I have a 6970 in my rig now also... With my superior skills I managed to fry couple VRM chips in my GTX 570. Don't know for sure what went wrong. IMO the install of the Accelero Xtreme plus aftermarket cooler went fine and I had stressed the card harder, but after few hours of playing Witcher the VRM chips fried big time.

It was an EVGA board so changing the cooler doesn't avoid the warranty, but I think my chances of getting a free replacement is pretty slim.

Went to store and bought 6970, I know you can flash 6950s to these, but I think my modding "thirst" is now satisfied for little while...

I really like the 570 before the failure. Like Grall said the cooling solution is not as good in this imo. Granted in normal use there is no problems, but if there is a reason for the fan to go up, it really does sound horrible, even with reasonable RPMs 60% is pretty damn loud, but yeah at auto settings with one card it's silent.

I plugged in the card and ticked the boxes at AMDs site to download drivers. It prompted me to download the latest 10.12 drivers, which I did, well seems they don't support my card... I later found out that there is a hot fix in there somewhere and felt it was pretty well hidden. I'm now running with the drivers on the disk and on overall things don't feel as stable as they were on the 570, with that card getting the latest drivers from nVidias website was less painfull.

Well witcher is still running great and I'm waiting for the next drivers to hopefully bring some additional stability and maybe even little bit of speed out of this card, but I'm sure it'll do it's job well for now.
 
I plugged in the card and ticked the boxes at AMDs site to download drivers. It prompted me to download the latest 10.12 drivers, which I did, well seems they don't support my card... I later found out that there is a hot fix in there somewhere and felt it was pretty well hidden. I'm now running with the drivers on the disk and on overall things don't feel as stable as they were on the 570, with that card getting the latest drivers from nVidias website was less painfull.

Catalyst 10.12a hotfix for 69xx.
 
but after few hours of playing Witcher the VRM chips fried big time.
Awww! That sucks! :(

I assume your after-market cooler covered the VRMs somehow? Coz otherwise they'd buuuuuurrrrnnn, of course... Heck, even with cooling for the VRMs they sometimes get ridiculously hot, didn't Anand report that one of the sets of VRMs for the 5890 cracked 120C under GPGPU loads and caused the card to throttle?
 
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