Good explanation of filtering (must read for beginners)

[jvd]

I guess even 100 users should find the same thing, you would say so, wouldn't you?

That makes 2-3 guys who says they see something, and even if you are right (meaning it's another issue), i think you should be a bit less over-reacting.

If you are addressing me this is the first person to make a claim and back it up.

If you read the post though he turned the gamma way up which may or may not be showing what actually happens in game. For all we know all video cards with the gama that high will produce the same image as the 9700pro video he showed look just as bad while not taking in the fact that this was recompressed using divix and the x800 video was blown up to a higher res and less frames in the video.

Who knows what after market filtering they used .

I asked if he could some how send me his save so i can take a video at the same point .

 

[Evildeus]

Well, that the 3rd person to tell you they see a difference, and 2nd with a video. You don't see any differencies which is certainly true. You didn't see the differencies in the DB's pics posted AFAIR, some people saw some.

I don't have a particular issue with your way, i know you aren't seeing any differencies, but that doesn't mean other people don't see some. How do you expect those people to prove they saw a difference in the pics?

I don't think it's possible to resolve this issue esealy, because different people have different standards of IQ. Perhaps what seems obvious for you is not for other people, and conversely.

 

[jvd]

Well, that the 3rd person to tell you they see a difference, and 2nd with a video. You don't see any differencies which is certainly true. You didn't see the differencies in the DB's pics posted AFAIR, some people saw some.

who is the first to show a diffrence with video ?

I don't have a particular issue with your way, i know you aren't seeing any differencies, but that doesn't mean other people don't see some. How do you expect those people to prove they saw a difference in the pics

and i don't have a problem with people who see things diffrently than i do. I do have a problem with people posting two diffrent video , compression and framerate videos with gama very high as proof .

Although he did say he didn't see much of a diffrence. I would like to take videos that are unchanged at the same place and compare . It could be as little as dirvers or the gama could be what the problem is .

It seems that many don't want us to explore and see if this isn't just a big fud coming out from nvidia fans .

I personaly hope that dave has time to write an article with this and take some videos of what is going on.

 

[radar1200gs]

There is only one source of FUD in this thread, and it isn't from anyone in the nVidia camp...

 

[Evildeus]

Marko?

As for the big fud from Nv fan, AFAIR, that's not Nv fan who found out the issue and developped the subject, and most of them didn't take part in the issue at the beginning at leat.

And i don't think ted is a Nv fan(boy)

 

[Grestorn]

and i don't have a problem with people who see things diffrently than i do. I do have a problem with people posting two diffrent video , compression and framerate videos with gama very high as proof .

Excuse me, but changing gamma can't CREATE a problem with textures. Even if it's completely dark, the textures would still shimmer, you just wouldn't be able to see it.

It seems that many don't want us to explore and see if this isn't just a big fud coming out from nvidia fans .

Don't you think that owning a 9700Pro and a x800Pro gives me the right to criticize the product?

I've never stated that the x800 is a bad product, in fact I think it's the best thing out there right now (I can't tell how it compares to the 6800U yet, since I don't have any first hand experience).

Still, I think ATI's policy to force brilinear filtering is just as wrong as nVidia's policy is. Both of them have to make that optimization optional. That's all I'm saying.

In fact, you telling me that I'm a fan-boy is kinda funny in itself.

 

[jvd]

Excuse me, but changing gamma can't CREATE a problem with textures. Even if it's completely dark, the textures would still shimmer, you just wouldn't be able to see it.

right. Which means it can be happening on all the video cards including a 6800ultra but since no one turns up the gama no one will know

Don't you think that owning a 9700Pro and a x800Pro gives me the right to criticize the product?

and as owning both don't u think that givesm e the right to defend the product when i am not getting the same results as you are .

Still, I think ATI's policy to force brilinear filtering is just as wrong as nVidia's policy is. Both of them have to make that optimization optional. That's all I'm saying.

Thats great. And i think it sucks too. Which is why i find ways around it on both the fx line and the x800 line up. IF you have problems then you should find a way around them too


YOu posted two videos. The x800s is blown up. Not only that but they were made using fraps and then compressed using divx . But only one is blown up bigger than the res it was encoded at originaly . It just so happens that the one with the image quality in question is the one that has been blown up.

Why is that ?

Do i not have a right to question why one os blown up and the other is not ?

Would both blown up to the same res show the same problems ? I do not know because your forcing myself and others to see it how you want .

Guess your not much diffrent than nvidia and ati when we look at it that way huh .


Anyway i'm off going nto get my wizard outfit cleaned and then off to make plans for the fair .

 

[Socos]

The conclusion brings up an alarming trend, ie the use of these filtering tricks by both parties to try and one up each other at the cost of image quality and choice for the consumer.

Exactly. Instead of people attacking articles that reveal this information to us, we should applaud it, as knowledge is never a bad thing to have when making a decision on spending $500. Instead of people being partisan and criticising Manufacturer X whilst celebrating Manufacturer Y for doing, basically, the same thing we should be angry at both of them. Unless they can see the public doesn't like having the wool pulled over our eyes they won't stop. Both companies are in this game to make as much money as they possibly can, so let's not pretend that Manufacturer Z are 'nice guys' who would never possibly cheat their loyal fanbase. They would, every time, if they thought they could get away with it.

I totally agree with you, however, I take issue that Tom remained pretty much on the sidelines when NV was using clipping planes and substituting shaders. I feel you should report everything if you are going to report anything. This is the reason I don't visit Toms anymore. You only get the side of the story they want you to get.