GameCube update

[Evil_Cloud]

Mario Sunshine's been in development (in some form) since 1999 actually. Only very recently though has a solid team formed around the concept from what I understand.... but the core programmer (can't remember his name, he did the water physics for WaveRace 64 & Mario Sunshine) has been kicking it around since then. Truth be told, it likely should be bumped up to Revolution for launch.

Actually, Mario Sunshine (the ground levels) were made up from the junk levels that didn't make Mario 64DD on Nintendo 64DD. (in other words, the entire game that didn't make the add-on system)

 

[Farid]

it's being done by Namco's Famista team. Next I'd like to see KCET's Winning Eleven team handle Mario Soccer.

When i heard Famista was doing Mario Baseball, the first thing that came to my mind was "Now I fully expect a Mario Soccer, and a Mario Athletics made by KCEO".
Great minds think alike, they say...

Except, maybe, that the developer i choosed, KCEO (Now KCES), is a more realistic choice for an arcade Mario Soccer.

Or maybe Takatsuka a.k.a. Seabass is a fan of Mario, who knows?

 

[Qroach]

neither of them are good choices for mario soccer.

 

[Ty]

Ty: GI.biz are just putting a negative spin on the facts.

No Nintendo didn't have a loss, they just didn't meet expectations at the end of the first half of the previous fiscal year, that's all... This fact is even presented in the same article: the profit of Nintendo for fiscal year 2003.

I think the subject was discussed lots of times on these boards, along with all the other "Nintendo is about to die"-"symptoms" frequently seen in articles from the oh-so-many "industrial insiders"...

Uh, not sure I follow you. The article is from Yahoo (via AP) not the GI.biz network as far as I can see.

Also it clearly mentions a loss, not failing to meet expectations. If you read the article, it seems pretty objective (no 'negative spin') in what it's trying to present.

Anyhow I don't see a reason to change my previous statement that 'not even Nintendo is always profitable' (but the future sure looks bright for them now).

 

[Qroach]

people see what they want to see...

 

[Farid]

neither of them are good choices for mario soccer.

Sega's Amusement Vision? Visual Concepts?

 

[function]

I agree with all that, though I'd say Saturn's Japanese success rested largely on Virtua Fighter upfront moreso than anything (and it's not like AM2 was deep in MD development enyway). Sega essentially killed support on a 30 million strong western base to cater to a 6 million strong Japanese base.

Again, Sega were stupid to drop the Genesis when they did. Even Tom Kalinske thought so, though I understand he got bad mouthed by Sega of Japan for expresssing this opinion.

Well, Nintendo acted swiftly when VB stalled at retail. It had something like a 6 month shelf life. The only platform from a major game maker that can compare would be Nintendo's own Pokemon Mini, funny enough. As is though VB managed to move 2 million systems... which is actually more than 32X afaik.

The Virtual Boy sold over 2 million systems?!!? Since when? I freely admit I don't follow the charts, but the VB was considered a dead dog before it even launched. Why would Nintendo have made 2 million of them? Do you have an official source for this figure? I have trouble believing Nintendo would have made 2 million of the wretched things...

It was just a swift console comparison, it's nice to see Nintendo isn't just dropping a lame duck. As Sega has repeatedly.

But they dropped the Virtual Boy faster than Sega dropped the 32X (possibly Sega's biggest failure). And one of Nintendo's strengths is that they don't tend to release lame duck systems in the same way that Sega did. But not being Sega isn't something that I would automatically consider a strength. ...

Well, they aren't 2nd biggest by supporting just one platform. Would you also like their GBA & DS lineups?

As those games aren't coming out for the Cube, I wouldn't consider them remotely relevant. Sorry.

Well that reflects policy shifts at Nintendo more than anything. Less reliance on 2nd party developers (after the Rare, Leftfield and SK deals went sour) and more 3rd party collaberations. You also have to figure EAD as being NCL's primary console team (been that way for the past decade) is now branching out into heavy DS R&D. Things are slowing internally... but then the 1st half is a traditionally slow period anyway. GC actually holds up favorably to the competition here.

Yeah, there has been a shift of policy at Nintendo, and that's something I consider as positive for the company (as well as chronically overdue). But it doesn't change the fact that the GC's palsied release schedule is only as good as it is with 3rd party help.

Again, it's the slow period of the year sales wise, and Nintendo still have a fairly packed lineup. And outside one game (Chibo Robo) all are guaranteed worldwide release really. I'd say you need to think on it a bit longer, this is hardly a lacking lineup considering the circumstances.

I just don't consider the GC lineup "packed" however you try to push it. And while you may consider this good "considering the circumstances", I would say "why should a customer consider the circumstances"? The GC's circumstances are almost totally of Nintendo's making, and it's the customers job to choose what they want. They don't have to take anything into consideration other than what they want. And they've not been wanting the Gamecube.

MS have a new console arriving at the end of next year. If the Xbox is short of releases compared to the GC (which I doubt) this is far more forgiveable if the company has a new console arriving that year. I've seen nothing yet that suggests revolution is coming next year.

There's plenty of examples. In Japan there was Sin & Punishment on N64 (10,000 print run iirc), the entire line of 64DD releases (which were sold by direct market order only and mailed to customers) and western games like Eternal Darkness or 1080 Avalanche regularly see tiny print runs of 5-20k.

In the US there's less examples since NOA's so careful with their own release schedule. Off the top of my head I can think of Pokemon Box for GC though, which is only sold online and at the Pokemon Center in NYC. There's also the various limited promotion GC discs Nintendo's been releasing (featuring demos, GBA link bonuses or emulated Zelda games). Nothing really comparable on N64 here, but that's to be expected when dealing with expensive silicon ROM carts.

I doubt Sega of America would've bothered with Panzer Saga or Burning Rangers either if they were on 16MB carts.... as is though, the 20k units of their various final Saturn games weren't even enough to meet demand and all sold out immediately. Saturn was put down and new releases (and new shipments even) stopped because Bernie Stolar wanted it done with, not because there wasn't some market left at all. SOA even canceled promised later games like Deep Fear actually, and did their best to drive away what 3rd party support they had left (like the Working Designs fiasco or refusing to release the 4MB cart for Capcom's games). Hardly charitable moves "for the fans".

The difference is I never ever stated that Sega was doing anything simply "for the fans", just that they supported a small, dying userbase for whatever reason. All the examples you list are either greater than the US and European runs for the game I mentioned (PDS) or have a range that goes way beyond what Sega produced for US and European PDS. 5 - 20 thousand presumanbly means either 20,000 or someone was really bad at counting ...

Hey, it was just a guess... going by your criteria though, wouldn't it also be unfair to compare a strggling game only company like Nintendo directly to a monopoly empowered software giant like Microsoft or a diversified electronics/media giant like Sony? Aren't Sega and Nintendo in fact much more directly comparable, despite fiscal responsibilty?

I don't quite get this. Nintendo aren't struggling, and they aren't a games only company. They also release hardware, and a range of hugely profitable merchantise for the Pokemon behemoth. Like Sega, they don't have a huge income that comes from none-games related sources, but unlike Sega they aren't floundering in a mire of mostly their own making. I don't see the point in comparing them to Sega, considering that Sega consoles are dead and Nintendo are supposedly still fighting for this market.

Why not compare them to Atari and 3D0, and say how great they're doing? There's simply no point, they're up against MS and Sony now.

I do see Microsoft cutting plenty of Xbox projects in favor of movement to Xenon though, particularly from Rare. But then I take it they enjoy buringing over there...

MS should be pushing Rare titles to Xenon. They should have done this from the day they bought the company. Concentrate your resources on the battle where it will do most good.

It's nothing to do with supporting stragglers or being nice, it's business. Same as it is for Nintendo. And no amount of (sorry, ill conceived IMO) comparisons with Sega will change this.

 

[Teasy]

neither of them are good choices for mario soccer.

I wouldn't be so sure about that actually. Disney Soccer was developed by KCEO using KCET's Winning Eleven 5 engine, and it was a really fun game.

 

[Kalin]

Ty: GI.biz are just putting a negative spin on the facts.

No Nintendo didn't have a loss, they just didn't meet expectations at the end of the first half of the previous fiscal year, that's all... This fact is even presented in the same article: the profit of Nintendo for fiscal year 2003.

I think the subject was discussed lots of times on these boards, along with all the other "Nintendo is about to die"-"symptoms" frequently seen in articles from the oh-so-many "industrial insiders"...

Uh, not sure I follow you. The article is from Yahoo (via AP) not the GI.biz network as far as I can see.

Also it clearly mentions a loss, not failing to meet expectations. If you read the article, it seems pretty objective (no 'negative spin') in what it's trying to present.

Anyhow I don't see a reason to change my previous statement that 'not even Nintendo is always profitable' (but the future sure looks bright for them now).

Ops sorry... still it being yahoo and not GI.biz doesn't change anything.

I'll clarify a bit. When this results for Nintendo were reported yesterday there were two types of re-runs of the same headlines across the net: "Nintendo increases profit" and "Nintendo profitable again".

I think what GI.biz had was the second type, that's why I confused it I guess. Nintendo was ALREADY profitable and NOT "again". There's a huge difference. Hope it's clear now.

Edit: Found the old story, year 2003, Nintendo actually posted a loss for the six months ended Sept. 30 (Bloomberg article).

 

[Qroach]

I wouldn't be so sure about that actually. Disney Soccer was developed by KCEO using KCET's Winning Eleven 5 engine, and it was a really fun game.

I can think of a better company.

 

[cthellis42]

As is though VB managed to move 2 million systems... which is actually more than 32X afaik.

The Virtual Boy sold over 2 million systems?!!? Since when? I freely admit I don't follow the charts, but the VB was considered a dead dog before it even launched.

I have one source that says about 1.25 million total (half in Japan and half overseas) and N-Sider reporting "positive sales" could only track 700K in the US and 150K in Japan. Either way, both it and the 32X were entirely crappy. I'm not sure what any side would have to say by saying "Look, that other idea sucked marginally more ass!"

Higher numbers might reflect how many Nintendo made--not how many were produced, as they did project sales of 2 million in the first six months or so.

Why not compare them to Atari and 3D0, and say how great they're doing? There's simply no point, they're up against MS and Sony now.

<laughs> Dude, that's just cruel. Stop making fun of my Atari! <snf>

 

[function]

The Virtual Boy sold over 2 million systems?!!? Since when? I freely admit I don't follow the charts, but the VB was considered a dead dog before it even launched.

I have one source that says about 1.25 million total (half in Japan and half overseas) and N-Sider reporting "positive sales" could only track 700K in the US and 150K in Japan. Either way, both it and the 32X were entirely crappy. I'm not sure what any side would have to say by saying "Look, that other idea sucked marginally more ass!"

Yeah, despite my line about there being no benefit in viewing Nintedno's pro's in terms of sega's cons, here I am trying to argue that I think Nintendo's suckiest device was supported worse than Sega's mushroom shaped Megadrive mess. In the 32X's defense (if it's possible for it to have one), Virtua Racing and Virtua Fighter for it were really solid games that deserve credit in their own right, and Doom was rather good too (though not as good as the Jaguar version).

In fact, I have a strange fascination with clever but hopelessly doomed consoles and peripherals. I actually like the aim behind the Virtual Boy (I'm dying to see home VR, even if it's not perfect) and think the 32X was actually impressive in terms of what they managed to bolt onto a Megadrive (why you'd want to do this is another matter) ...

Jarrod does, of course, have some good points. While I've never been particularly impressed by Nintendo's hardware (they cut too many corners to make the things cheap), you have to respect a company with Nintendo's history for consistently putting out great games, and they've managed to avoid completely alienating much of their core fanbase by rarely seeming to cut and run on a system. But I think these are traits of management rather than a display of ethics.

Higher numbers might reflect how many Nintendo made--not how many were produced, as they did project sales of 2 million in the first six months or so.

Yeah, didn't think of that at the time. I read something on the interweb a while a while ago about there still being stocks of unsold 64-DDs lying around in Japan. I wonder how many crates of brand new Virtual Boys, Mega CD 2s and Jaguars there are lying in warehouses, waiting to be discovered?

<laughs> Dude, that's just cruel. Stop making fun of my Atari! <snf>

Hey, at least their hardware went out on a high, with the toilet shaped Jaguar CD!

 

[cthellis42]

When you gotta go, you gotta go...

I wonder how many crates of brand new Virtual Boys, Mega CD 2s and Jaguars there are lying in warehouses, waiting to be discovered?

Imagine a Beowulf cluster of all those!

 

[London Geezer]

When you gotta go, you gotta go...

 

[Teasy]

I can think of a better company.

There is no better company then Konami when it comes to Football games.

 

[Qroach]

Too bad nintendo doesn't develope REAL sports games. Which is why I can think of a better developer.

 

[Teasy]

Hmm, you've lost me.

 

[PC-Engine]

One thing that still impresses me about the little GCN is that 90% of the games have very short loading times. Hopefully Nintendo follows this design philosophy with Revolution.

 

[function]

When you gotta go, you gotta go...

I knew there was a good toilet/ending quip in there somewhere!

Imagine a Beowulf cluster of all those!

I'm guessing the performance to power consumption / space taken ratios wouldn't be too favourable. Though being able to take a break and play Night Trap would always be a bonus. Sort of.