Game Informer's E3 Grades + Review Scores

[Nesh]

Anyways here is a revised version of my previous post for those that might misunderstand iincluding Acer

My intention was to refer to the PS3 only and the various falsified claims that tend to float everywhere with each small opportunity. Even if that means twisting or exagerating facts
Not to compare


Sony loses exclusives?
http://www.unlimitedgamer.net/18/sony-loses-devil-may-cry-4-exclusive/


Sony copies everyone and everyone else doesnt so PS3 is just a copy of its competitors?
Its a fact that this is a common thing among all firms. Although its true that Sony implements ideas used initially from others, others do the same as well.
Yet its been used all the time as if Sony are the thieves of the whole story when its a natural thing all firms did and do, whether its Nintendo, MS or others. But so be it. Thats how the industry and generally productivity evolves for centuries.

PS3 is extremely hard to develop for?
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/09/29/is-the-playstation-3-losing-development-support/
answer
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/651/651540p1.html
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archives/2006/01/27/possession_and_the_art_of_ps3_programming.html
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=51558
http://www.shacknews.com/extras/2006/032906_markrein_2.x


The "core" version doesnt support wireless controllers?(I wonder where they got that stupid claim from)
http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?articleId=20060513133719562032&sectionId=1006

PS3 is broken and rushed?
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32171
answer:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=17547

The motion sensing feature on the PS3 isnt functionable?
Apart from attacking Sony for stealing Nintendo's idea they used the short bad demonstration of it at Sony's conference. Which lasted a few seconds.
Yet it is used like a confirmed fact and almost as accurate as if the conclusion was derived
after lots of trial and error.
The motion sensing hasnt even been broadly tested or commented by developers. Everything else like what was discussed in a healthy way in here were various hypothesis with good points and arguements.


PS3 will be downgraded?
http://news.spong.com/article/10221?cb=299
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/sony/more-ps3-downgrades-on-the-way-179863.php
http://www.news4gamers.com/ps3/News-2156.aspx

I wasn't referring to "downgrades" like extra features nor to 1-2 year old spec announcements that changed but to specific recent rumors of clock speed decrease etc.


PS3 will be $900 to make (some even claimed it was going to be sold at $800)?
http://forevergeek.com/news/ps3_will_cost_900_to_produce.php
I even found this in a magazine claiming it as the announced official price

Even the most impressive PS3 games dont look good enough?(so far its the only machine that has shown almost indistinguishable real time graphics from CGI IMO)

This was directed to the fact people from various sources give lots of positive feedback to other platforms good looking titles (and why shouldn’t they?) but the same sources or people ditch everything that was showed on the PS3 or not refer to them at all despite that some of them were just as good looking or better looking than some of the games they commented earlier.

The part on the parenthesis was just n extra remark of my personal opinion since I like being honest.
But since you refered to my remark and misunderstood me I ll explain what I ment.
I was refering only to very few remarkable examples. FF13, MGS4, Heavenly Sword and probably Naughty Dog's untitled project because of the animation, physics and steady framerates combined with the visual detail.
If I was refering to visual detail only I would have named more games including 360 games and I many times commented on GOW-related topics that it looks almost as good as the Killzone target render. Ofcourse sometimes I expressed my distaste on the framerate asking for some extra information if it got fixed.

If you notice most of my disappointments on next gen games so far is the lack of the other elements. Now you will tell me I haven't played any PS3 games or saw enough gameplay footage and I agree, but knowing from past experiences Kojima's, Square's, and Nughty Dog's work and from HS's gameplay footage plus some interviews I am highly optimistic they will deliver in these aspects.

Also my comment was refering to what developers have shown regardless of performance or technical abilities of each console. It just happens that certain extremely talented developers showed what I wanted to see(with other words their talent) on the PS3 instead on the 360. If you notice I tried to avoid comparissons as much as possible. You misunderstood that I was implying PS3 was the only hardware that had the performance to produce that level of quality and you even called me a troll and spoke ironically at me.


PS3 has half the performance of 360 and its very weak (yeah I even found such articles)?
http://www.xboxic.com/news/781
There are more articles but I dont have the time to find. I can accept similar performance claims but other crazy claims are simply....crazy.

Another old crazy rumor:
no pre-owned games for PS3?
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/24/rumor-no-pre-owned-games-for-ps3/

 

[TheChefO]

Nesh - I don't know what you expect of ps3 but my expectations are that it will be successful. It will not have anywhere near the dominance ps2 had on the market but it will do just fine. With that out of the way:

On to your ps3 articles etc.

There have been a lot of questions accusations because there have been a lot of claims and things which are not in line with what Sony has done in the past. And some of the things they have done in the past brings us to question the things they are showing/doing now. Long story short you can't stay on top forever, but when you're there and you start making questionable decisions here and there, eventually people will start to question whether you should be on top anymore. Heck even if they were perfect they would have the underdog fans rooting against them.

E3 2005 had many claims, interviews, and game videos that pointed to ps3 being an "exceptional dinner you have once a year". 1 year later and were pulling up at the same drivethrough window we've been ordering from for the last 6 months. "I'll take a #3 please, oh and supersize that." - "That'll be $599 sir, please pull up to the first window."

That isn't to say the games they showed are bad. But they (for the most part) look a lot like the same "xbox 1.5" games that Kutaragi et al were complaining about to me. Aside from an mgs4 here an Assasins Creed there, it looks very ho hum. and to add insult to injury the games from all acounts can (and will) be ported to 360 which goes against their superiority claims.

I think when you factor in the "promised" experience vs reality and then factor in the competition and then factor in their "show" at e3 2006 compared to e3 2005 and it's easy to see a general letdown that contributed to most people's opinion of ps3 at e3 2006. We'll see if they can turn it around at TGS and truly show this special meal standard and seperate themselves from 360.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That isn't to say the games they showed are bad. But they (for the most part) look a lot like the same "xbox 1.5" games that Kutaragi et al were complaining about to me. Aside from an mgs4 here an Assasins Creed there, it looks very ho hum. and to add insult to injury the games from all acounts can (and will) be ported to 360 which goes against their superiority claims.

Why would that igve rise to a glut of anti-PS3 propaganda though? Disinterest and disappointment, yeah, but do you think people are writing tech-naive articles about PS3 just because of that, or because they're trying to start up trouble? eg. We had an article saying PS3 had half the power of XB360 because it had half the triangle setup rate, and as Nesh links to another article on an XB forum saying 'Sony claimed 200 GFlops but IBM's program only got 155 GFlops' obviously without any consideration for peak versus achievable performance, nor any consideration for XB360's peak versus attained performance in tests either. No machine is going to get it's peak performance, but you can't cite just one machine in that area and claim it's creators were lying! That's not disgruntled consumers feeling their being overcharged for a product that isn't living up to spurious claims of being a big meal, but articles created just to attack the reputation of the platform.

Ugh. It'd be so nice if journalism were about presenting facts and truth rather than attracting customers/visitors. But that's what these stories are about. Bad news is good news, because you'll get more visitors with that then anything else. Thus we'll be forever getting lopsided reviews and opinions of all hardwares as realistic views require a smart enough audience to appreciate them, of which there probably aren't enough people in the world to support such a news-site. That's the only explanation, and it has nothing to do with pricing or hyping. I think it very wise of Nintendo to avoid the whole specs issue because in doing so they've avoided a whole load of nonsense talk.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I think it's being blow out of proportion by some very overly sensitive people. There's not some huge wave of anti-ps3 propoganda, there just your typical sensationalist stories meant to draw hits, and look at the sources for those articles, I mean these are essentialy the rags of the internet: theinquirer, spong, kotaku etc

Basically there's been two recent rumours that were total bunk, PS3 being downgraded, and PS3 is broken, both of these rumours were accepted from day 1 as being bogus by most intelligent people on these forums and everywhere else. The rest of this stuff is either old as hell (ps3 to cost $900) or is fairly true (CELL is hard to develop for relatively speaking)

As for GI 'hopping on the PS3 is doomed band wagon' give your heads a shake guys, it's not that way at all. You're reading FAR too much into this. Mercs and Assassins would've been two of PS3 biggest games within the first 6 months of launch, they were previously 'officialy' not announced for 360, that's all it is, nothing to get all worked up about.

 

[slider]

I think it's being blow out of proportion by some very overly sensitive people. There's not some huge wave of anti-ps3 propoganda, there just your typical sensationalist stories meant to draw hits, and look at the sources for those articles, I mean these are essentialy the rags of the internet: theinquirer, spong, kotaku etc

Basically there's been two recent rumours that were total bunk, PS3 being downgraded, and PS3 is broken, both of these rumours were accepted from day 1 as being bogus by most intelligent people on these forums and everywhere else. The rest of this stuff is either old as hell (ps3 to cost $900) or is fairly true (CELL is hard to develop for relatively speaking)

As for GI 'hopping on the PS3 is doomed band wagon' give your heads a shake guys, it's not that way at all. You're reading FAR too much into this. Mercs and Assassins would've been two of PS3 biggest games within the first 6 months of launch, they were previously 'officialy' not announced for 360, that's all it is, nothing to get all worked up about.

You know how it is though. People are protecting their "tribe". If it'd been attacks on the 360 we would've eventually had people jumping to it's defence.

I guess it's cos in this game enthusiatic supporters care about how many "votes" (i.e. winning the PR war) you get, not necessarily the calibre of the "voters". Hope that makes sense, despite the mixed analogies....

 

[TheChefO]

Why would that igve rise to a glut of anti-PS3 propaganda though? Disinterest and disappointment, yeah, but do you think people are writing tech-naive articles about PS3 just because of that, or because they're trying to start up trouble? eg. We had an article saying PS3 had half the power of XB360 because it had half the triangle setup rate, and as Nesh links to another article on an XB forum saying 'Sony claimed 200 GFlops but IBM's program only got 155 GFlops' obviously without any consideration for peak versus achievable performance, nor any consideration for XB360's peak versus attained performance in tests either. No machine is going to get it's peak performance, but you can't cite just one machine in that area and claim it's creators were lying! That's not disgruntled consumers feeling their being overcharged for a product that isn't living up to spurious claims of being a big meal, but articles created just to attack the reputation of the platform.

Ugh. It'd be so nice if journalism were about presenting facts and truth rather than attracting customers/visitors. But that's what these stories are about. Bad news is good news, because you'll get more visitors with that then anything else. Thus we'll be forever getting lopsided reviews and opinions of all hardwares as realistic views require a smart enough audience to appreciate them, of which there probably aren't enough people in the world to support such a news-site. That's the only explanation, and it has nothing to do with pricing or hyping. I think it very wise of Nintendo to avoid the whole specs issue because in doing so they've avoided a whole load of nonsense talk.

Agreed the tech differences, as has been resolved here many times before, are virtually non-existant between ps3 and 360 (and Wii should hold it's own at 480p resolution). The Journalists (as Scoob pointed out very well) are more after hits than a correct story. After last E3 the vast majority of the media painted a very clear picture:
ps3 = xbox360 x2

While the sensationalist stories are popping up lately which contradict the ps3 = xbox360 x2 and some even suggesting, as you pointed to, that the 360 is twice as powerful as ps3 etc, most of us in this forum recognize that these claims are rediculous and that the machines are roughly equal. But the general public has not yet been informed of this. This general "reality check" of ps3 lately while not 100% true, is good for the industry as it will help to balance the market this fall and ready the masses for ps3 games that don't look like cgi movies.

 

[mckmas8808]

This general "reality check" of ps3 lately while not 100% true, is good for the industry as it will help to balance the market this fall and ready the masses for ps3 games that don't look like cgi movies.

I see what you are saying, but alot of this "reality check" you speak of is derived from lies.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I see what you are saying, but alot of this "reality check" you speak of is derived from lies.

As was the initial perception that was spread last year. Ask anyone on the streets and they would've told you how much more powerful PS3 would be. I agree with Chef, it's a good thing that consumers are getting a more realistic view now, even if it is through FUD.

 

[TheChefO]

I see what you are saying, but alot of this "reality check" you speak of is derived from lies.

Well, I don't know how much was a lie or misunderstanding, but if you're refering to the one Shifty used as an example, it's a truth. The triangle setup rate of 360 is double ps3. Does that mean we'll see games with twice as many polys in 360 games? Highly unlikely. But then this argument can be made conversly wrt ps3 specs. Twice the gflops etc. etc.

The point is the machines are roughly equal. But the general public perception (which was fueld by the media via Sony) was/is "ps3 = xbox360 x2". Who knows, perhaps the media grew a conscious and are trying to balance out their mistakes from a year ago.

 

[mckmas8808]

Well, I don't know how much was a lie or misunderstanding, but if you're refering to the one Shifty used as an example, it's a truth. The triangle setup rate of 360 is double ps3. Does that mean we'll see games with twice as many polys in 360 games? Highly unlikely. But then this argument can be made conversly wrt ps3 specs. Twice the gflops etc. etc.

The point is the machines are roughly equal. But the general public perception (which was fueld by the media via Sony) was/is "ps3 = xbox360 x2". Who knows, perhaps the media grew a conscious and are trying to balance out their mistakes from a year ago.

Two wrongs don't make a right. But even then we shouldn't be surprised. All media do this. Look at how the War in Iraq has been covered over the last few years. One day the media is on your side regardless of facts the next day they are against you, again regardless of facts.

And the general perception of the public is always in the hands of the media. I wish we could just get fair and balance news with both sides. What really caused this switch against Sony is the price of the PS3. That's it and only it. There is NO other reason.

If the 20GB PS3 was $350 and the 60GB PS3 was $449 the internet media would still be on Sony's nuts sprewing their everyline. It's the price that has the media revolting against them.

 

[TheChefO]

It's the price that has the media revolting against them.

And a few others.

Agreed two wrongs don't make a right but like you said, they're with you / against you. In reality they're neither. They're for themselves. And the best thing for them in their eyes is more and more hits which are easily attained with sensationalist articles either way. In this rational they've actually milked the cow on both sides of the fence. Last year MS was trying to sell a console and it was "oh 360 sucks!". This year Sony is trying to sell a console and its "oh ps3 sucks!". It seams the only one that hasn't recieved a lot of backlash (weeee comments aside) is Nintendo.

 

[mckmas8808]

And a few others.

Agreed two wrongs don't make a right but like you said, they're with you / against you. In reality they're neither. They're for themselves. And the best thing for them in their eyes is more and more hits which are easily attained with sensationalist articles either way. In this rational they've actually milked the cow on both sides of the fence. Last year MS was trying to sell a console and it was "oh 360 sucks!". This year Sony is trying to sell a console and its "oh ps3 sucks!". It seams the only one that hasn't recieved a lot of backlash (wii comments aside) is Nintendo.

Oh I think Nintendo will get thiers. If the gameplay doesn't completing make the earth shatter I could see internet sites raging big time over the Wii's graphics. Or lack there of.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Oh I think Nintendo will get thiers. If the gameplay doesn't completing make the earth shatter I could see internet sites raging big time over the Wii's graphics. Or lack there of.

Seems PS3 and X360 simply get more hits
http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22xbox+360%22%2C+%22PS3%22%2C+%22wii%22&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Interesting to see that Wii has actually started to overtake PS3 afte e3

 

[mckmas8808]

Seems PS3 and X360 simply get more hits
http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22xbox+360%22%2C+%22PS3%22%2C+%22wii%22&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Interesting to see that Wii has actually started to overtake PS3 afte e3

Actually the Wii and PS3 are on the same scale at the end of the chart. I didn't know the 360 was being search that much more than the PS3 and Wii.

 

[StefanS]

Actually the Wii and PS3 are on the same scale at the end of the chart. I didn't know the 360 was being search that much more than the PS3 and Wii.

An interesting question would be, if peaks coincide with MS viral internet marketing campaigns.

 

[TheChefO]

An interesting question would be, if peaks coincide with MS viral internet marketing campaigns.

Sure they do. Probably even more than Sony Viral internet marketing campaigns due to the popularity of Playstation.

 

[swanlee]

I think Sony is getting what it deserved, at E3 05 they undermined the 360 launch buy showing CG videos claiming they were real time and then promoted a lot of high end features like dual HDMI 1080P outputs, said the 360 was really the Xbox 1.5, and laughed at MS's two SKU approach.

1 year later at this years E3, games don't look any better than 360 games, dual 1080P outputs are gone, Sony has gone to a two SKU approach, last years CG renders were a dream, Kill zone was a complete no show this year and motor storm looked nothing like the CG from last year which they claimed was real time. That and tack on the 499$-599$ price, and I can say that sony is getting the backlash they earned.

It's good the media is not buying sony's over hyped claims anymore.

 

[StefanS]

Sure they do. Probably even more than Sony Viral internet marketing campaigns due to the popularity of Playstation.

Maybe i should have worded it a little more clearer: It would be interesting if it possible to match the peaks with the specific starting date of the diverse MS viral marketing campaigns. Do anybody know when each of them started?

 

[RobertR1]

I think Sony is getting what it deserved, at E3 05 they overmined the 360 lainch buy showing CG videos claiming they were real time and then promoted a lot of high end features like dual HDMI 1080P outputs, said the 360 was really the Xbox 1.5, and laughed at MS's two SKU approach.

1 year later at this years E3, games don't look any better than 360 games, dual 1080P outputs are gone, Sony has gone to a two SKU appraoch, last years CG renders we a dream, Kill zone was a complete now show this year and motor sotmr looked nothing like the CG from last year which they claimed was real time. That and tack on the 499$-599$ price, and I can say that sony is getting the backlash they earned.

It's good the media is not buying sony's over hyped claims anymore.

Agreed! If you really want to bunch up some panties, start talking about the how the Samsung Blu Ray player is inferior to the Toshiba HD DVD model by a fair amount, and it's not just the player, it's the lack of delivery on promises for the Blu Ray medium.

People on www.avsforum.com are having quite a good laugh off Blu Ray right now.

 

[mckmas8808]

Agreed! If you really want to bunch up some panties, start talking about the how the Samsung Blu Ray player is inferior to the Toshiba HD DVD model by a fair amount, and it's not just the player, it's the lack of delivery on promises for the Blu Ray medium.

People on www.avsforum.com are having quite a good laugh off Blu Ray right now.

So does that mean the PS3 is doomed? And you do know that's due to the MPEG-2 format that Sony uses right? The upcoming Warner titles for the fall are already reporting to be using the same VC1 codec they used for HD-DVD.