Gabe Newell: Valve will release its own console-like PC

[dobwal]

Android = Steam. Nexus = SteamBox.

Android may equal Steam but Nexus does not equal SteamBox. Google commissions Nexus phones to give consumers access to an non manufacturer and carrier modified Android phone and a streamlined and fast access to OS upgrade. When you use Steam you don't get an UI designed by Dell, HP or any numerous PC vendor nor when you open Steam do you have to worry about your library containing undeleteable apps from Best Buy or New Egg.

When Valve releases a new version of Steam you as a PC owner don't have to wait for approval by your PC manufacturer and your PC retailer of choice to approve and make it available to you (which can take months). You get the Steam that Valve intended, you don't with Android phones hence the need for Nexus. Furthermore, while Nexus is critically well received, it is produced in rather low volume and availability is always an issue.

For Valve to enter the software market, they only had to developer Steam. The risk of hardware to run it was placed on Dell, HP, ASUS, and IHVs.

Thats an apples to orange comparsion because Dell, HP, ASUS and other PC IHVs hardware sales aren't dependent on consumers' acceptance of Steam. It helps but if a consumer is dead set against using Steam, deleting Steam is an option and the hardware can be judged on its own merits. If a consumer is dead set against Android then Android based phones won't be considered for purchase.

After Google's OS, they then decided to create their own hardware range, which they didn't have to do. Valve are considering the same. Whatever issues Valve would face, they have already been faced by Google with Nexus hardware from IHVs. That doesn't prove the venture will be successful or not, but it does prove a software company can commission hardware and sell it. Design, manufacturing, distribution, needn't be crippling (unless Google have lost gazillions on Nexus, I've no idea!).

Again Nexus was created to give consumers access to an unadulterated Android phone as Google intended. Manufacturer are happy to manufacture the Nexus because it gives them a chance showcase their hardware and build their reputation with serious Android users.

There is plenty of proof that a software company can commission hardware and sell it. But the motivation of Google with Nexus doesn't serve as a good model for the Steam Box. Nexus is more of a marketing device for the OS developer and hardware manufacturer and probably not much of a profit center for Google. Google has done a very poor job in venturing into hardware and will more readily serves as a good example as what Valve shouldn't do.

 

[dobwal]

Content is the only thing that matters. If Valve is serious about this venture they will not ship a Linux based console. Nobody will buy it because there are no games. Nobody will code for it because the install base will be near zero.

We have a hard enough time getting devs to properly support windows PCs and now they're expected to support yet another target platform? Not gonna happen.

http://steamlinux.flibitijibibo.com/

Give me the ability to use my windows desktop as a rendering server to play Steam games on my TV and I'm sold.

Nobody will code for it if the install base is zero. But if Steam for Linux and a copy of Linux along with a easy setup mechanism becomes a standard feature within Steam itself, then Valve launching its franchises as Linux exclusives will increase the userbase overnight.

Valve as a online retailer, publisher, game developer as well as a engine and tool developer has a lot of ways to incentivize developers and publishers over to Linux.

Valve's concern revolve around making sure getting into the hardware business and luring gamers over to linux doesn't sacrifice their windows and console business if Steam on Linux isn't successful.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Furthermore, while Nexus is critically well received, it is produced in rather low volume and availability is always an issue.

Google has done a very poor job in venturing into hardware and will more readily serves as a good example as what Valve shouldn't do.

Nexus 7 seems to be pretty successful and that along with Nexus 10 are an excellent effort to make solid iPad competitors.

 

[trinibwoy]

Nobody will code for it if the install base is zero. But if Steam for Linux and a copy of Linux along with a easy setup mechanism becomes a standard feature within Steam itself, then Valve launching its franchises as Linux exclusives will increase the userbase overnight.

Valve as a online retailer, publisher, game developer as well as a engine and tool developer has a lot of ways to incentivize developers and publishers over to Linux.

Valve's concern revolve around making sure getting into the hardware business and luring gamers over to linux doesn't sacrifice their windows and console business if Steam on Linux isn't successful.

Valve can surely release Linux exclusives to lure (i.e. bully) people into adopting their hardware. That's their right. However, in doing so they will alienate and piss off millions of Steam loving PC gamers.

I can see a Linux based HL3 being a big draw. There has to be a windows version too though. I just have serious doubts that many people will pony up hundreds of dollars for hardware that can only play Valve exclusives and a handful of indie titles, with no promise of support from the big publishers in the future.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Android = Steam. Nexus = SteamBox.

For Valve to enter the software market, they only had to developer Steam. The risk of hardware to run it was placed on Dell, HP, ASUS, and IHVs.

After Google's OS, they then decided to create their own hardware range, which they didn't have to do. Valve are considering the same. Whatever issues Valve would face, they have already been faced by Google with Nexus hardware from IHVs. That doesn't prove the venture will be successful or not, but it does prove a software company can commission hardware and sell it. Design, manufacturing, distribution, needn't be crippling (unless Google have lost gazillions on Nexus, I've no idea!).

There's a flaw in that however. There was never any risk for Dell, HP, Asus, etc. as their product wasn't tied to the success of Steam. Hardware devices for Android were at much larger risk due to the reliance on Android as Dobwal mentioned.

Additionally, Google didn't start seriously commisioning devices until Android was well established in the market. IE - they waited until the high risk period was over before embarking on making hardware themselves. Even their aquisition of Motorola was relatively low risk versus entering the hardware market before Android was established.

Also, unlike the Windows OEM list you provided above. When Google started commisioning the Nexus line of phones, they didn't suddenly also change the OS required to run those phones. In theory, if you were lucky the apps you had purchased on your Samsung, LG, HTC, Huawei, or whatever phone would hopefully work on the Nexus device lowering the barrier of entry. A Steambox on the other will not be able to run the vast majority of Steam games that you had purchased on your PC OEM machine.

And even then, they are entering a still new and booming hardware market. Whereas PC's are currently at a plateau. Again, what is Valve offering that will entice non-Windows gamers in large numbers to expand the Steam software buying base?

Android also has far more cachet as a brandname than does Steam. That coupled with the booming smartphone market and Android being an established player all made it very low risk for Google to enter the hardware market compared to Valve.

If the Steambox was Windows based, I'd be more up on it. I still wouldn't see it being a large success, but I'd see it being more likely than it currently is as a Linux box.

Regards,
SB

 

[dobwal]

Valve can surely release Linux exclusives to lure (i.e. bully) people into adopting their hardware. That's their right. However, in doing so they will alienate and piss off millions of Steam loving PC gamers.

I can see a Linux based HL3 being a big draw. There has to be a windows version too though. I just have serious doubts that many people will pony up hundreds of dollars for hardware that can only play Valve exclusives and a handful of indie titles, with no promise of support from the big publishers in the future.

When I write "Linux exclusive", I am refering to Steam on Linux exclusive not Steam Box exclusive. Pissing off people is something Valve has done before and people got over it especially since initially Steam was the UPlay and SecuRom of its earlier days and can be considered the father of modern DRM for PC games. Now most people who use Steam love Steam.

 

[trinibwoy]

When I write "Linux exclusive", I am refering to Steam on Linux exclusive not Steam Box exclusive. Pissing off people is something Valve has done before and people got over it especially since initially Steam was the UPlay and SecuRom of its earlier days and can be considered the father of modern DRM for PC games. Now most people who use Steam love Steam.

I'm not sure why that distinction matters. How is "Steam on Linux exclusive" any different to "SteamBox exclusive" by any realistic measure? The market of gamers willing to build a custom Linux PC just to run Linux steam games is negligible at best.

There's a rather large difference between Steam's original Windows rollout and the proposed Linux Steambox. It was still Windows and therefore there was no shortage of content. Once people stopped whining their acceptance of Steam DRM didn't cost a cent. However, the Steam Box will cost many cents. Buying hardware is far more expensive than complaining on the Internet.

 

[dobwal]

Nexus 7 seems to be pretty successful and that along with Nexus 10 are an excellent effort to make solid iPad competitors.

The Nexus 7 is selling pretty well hitting close to 1 million a month. The Nexus 10 sales figures aren't really making the news. But the ipads moved almost 2 million a week over the quarter even with a $70-$100 dollar premium.

The Nexus 7 major draw point seems to be its price. I am not sure if its feasible for Valve to sell Steam Box cheaper than consoles while having a edge cpu wise but lacking in gpu power which is what the nexus 7 does against the ipad mini. The Nexus 10 doesn't seem to compete on price or performance.

 

[dobwal]

I'm not sure why that distinction matters. How is "Steam on Linux exclusive" any different to "SteamBox exclusive" by any realistic measure? The market of gamers willing to build a custom Linux PC just to run Linux steam games is negligible at best.

Build a custom Linux PC? Most PC gamers can simply use their current setup and get the best of both world, Windows and Linux gaming on the same rig.

There's a rather large difference between Steam's original Windows rollout and the proposed Linux Steambox. It was still Windows and therefore there was no shortage of content. Once people stopped whining their acceptance of Steam DRM didn't cost a cent. However, the Steam Box will cost many cents. Buying hardware is far more expensive than complaining on the Internet.

You literally don't have to buy new hardware unless you want to invest in a separate HDD or a larger one.

 

[trinibwoy]

Build a custom Linux PC? Most PC gamers can simply use their current setup and get the best of both world, Windows and Linux gaming on the same rig.

Most can but most won't. I don't buy this suggestion that lots of people out there are willing and able to tinker with their PCs and Linux to get this running. The whole point of the SteamBox is to bring a console like, worry free, plug-and-play experience to the PC!

The Internet is already littered with people struggling to get Windows games working properly. I still can't get my Steam copy of The Walking Dead to work under Windows 7.

You literally don't have to buy new hardware unless you want to invest in a separate HDD or a larger one.

Maybe, assuming Valve is primarily targeting people with capable Windows gaming PCs who are willing to futz around with dual-booting Linux. They are publicly encouraging folks to try Ubuntu but early adopters and tinkerers can't support a product like this on their own.

I wish Valve the best of luck though. The PC platform needs all the TLC it can get.

 

[dobwal]

Most can but most won't. I don't buy this suggestion that lots of people out there are willing and able to tinker with their PCs and Linux to get this running. The whole point of the SteamBox is to bring a console like, worry free, plug-and-play experience to the PC!

The Internet is already littered with people struggling to get Windows games working properly. I still can't get my Steam copy of The Walking Dead to work under Windows 7.



Maybe, assuming Valve is primarily targeting people with capable Windows gaming PCs who are willing to futz around with dual-booting Linux. They are publicly encouraging folks to try Ubuntu but early adopters and tinkerers can't support a product like this on their own.

I wish Valve the best of luck though. The PC platform needs all the TLC it can get.

My thought on this comes with the caveat that Valve would have to streamline the feature making it easy to use (see previous posts). One day you open up Steam and the feature would there for you to use. If you willing to deal with of all the flaws that come with gaming on a PC, you would probably more than willing to try it if Steam gave you the Linux option with no fuss or work.

That maybe the the point of SteamBox but people who use their PCs as serious gaming rigs usually prioritize graphics, framerates and other advantages of PC gaming over a worry free plug and play environment. And most tinkerers and early adopters are usually the PC demographic most able and willing to engage in working with a non perfect piece of tech software or hardware.

 

[trainplane]

Valve would need a much better solution to using Linux than current Linux distros offer. I've only used Ubuntu Linux and it doesn't come with nVidia drivers. I tried to install them and encountered nothing but problems. The installation instructions are not for the casual user:
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/ubuntu-quetzal-nvidia.html
Maybe that is just Ubuntu but Steambox can't have anything remotely close to this nightmare if they want to be user friendly.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Valve would need a much better solution to using Linux than current Linux distros offer. I've only used Ubuntu Linux and it doesn't come with nVidia drivers. I tried to install them and encountered nothing but problems. The installation instructions are not for the casual user:
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/ubuntu-quetzal-nvidia.html
Maybe that is just Ubuntu but Steambox can't have anything remotely close to this nightmare if they want to be user friendly.

It would obviously come with everything you need installed. You'd just plug it in and go.

 

[trainplane]

It would obviously come with everything you need installed. You'd just plug it in and go.

Yes for initial install but it needs to be seamless for driver updates too. Basically, all I'm saying is if Valve wants to use Linux, it needs to be a managed experience because once the user needs to do a "sudo" command to get a usb device or something to work, it stops being a console.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There's a flaw in that however...

You're drawing parallels and making arguments that I was never presenting. I was only using Google as one example of where a software company has commissioned hardware and sold a product successfully, showing it can be done to those who look at Valve and say, "they're a software company who won't be able to compete on hardware." That says nothing about Valve's likely success and I wasn't drawing those parallels.

 

[Mobius1aic]

Call me crazy here, but what if Valve was to build a custom Steam Linux OS variant while still supporting Steam on general Windows, Linux, and Mac OS? It could be the defacto platform for the Steambox while giving PC users a very potent software and OS framework specifically for playing games on, while still remaining open enough for users to make mods for games that support them. Valve could work with graphics companies to get very efficient and custom OpenGL drivers for Steam OS, and essentially the same piece of software you would use for Steam on Linux would be the same for Steam OS.

 

[tuna]

Valve would need a much better solution to using Linux than current Linux distros offer. I've only used Ubuntu Linux and it doesn't come with nVidia drivers. I tried to install them and encountered nothing but problems. The installation instructions are not for the casual user:
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/ubuntu-quetzal-nvidia.html
Maybe that is just Ubuntu but Steambox can't have anything remotely close to this nightmare if they want to be user friendly.

Linux does come with drivers for most nVidia HW, but they are not as fast or as fully featured as nVidea's own drivers. But they work good enough for most uses.

 

[Blazkowicz]

Call me crazy here, but what if Valve was to build a custom Steam Linux OS variant while still supporting Steam on general Windows, Linux, and Mac OS? It could be the defacto platform for the Steambox while giving PC users a very potent software and OS framework specifically for playing games on, while still remaining open enough for users to make mods for games that support them. Valve could work with graphics companies to get very efficient and custom OpenGL drivers for Steam OS, and essentially the same piece of software you would use for Steam on Linux would be the same for Steam OS.

Valve has targetted Ubuntu, so I can see them doing a repackaging of Ubuntu with a tweaked selection of software, choice of desktop environment and configuration of it plus icons/themes/wallpapers etc.
It would be like the difference between Ubuntu and Xubuntu, or Ubuntu and Linux Mint.

Now, here something that could be worked on : for "major" upgrades such as a new 6-month Ubuntu version (or in the regular usage of a rolling distro) important software such as the kernel, Xorg server and proprietary driver could be updated carefully.
For instance, you're running proprietary AMD, kernel versions n+1 and n+2 are available, and Xorg server version n+1. The driver breaks if Xorg is updated to version n+1, or kernel updated to n+2, or both. So the system would update the kernel to version n+1, don't touch the Xorg and would reconsider the situation once a new proprietary AMD driver is released (and put in the distro's repositories!)



/edit :
Some people do this shit manually (pinning package versions), because they have to, using something like Arch or Gentoo or Debian unstable. They have a longer beard than most linux users, but shorter beard than BSD users or some GNU nuts. Hence those people tend to be pissed by proprietary drivers and wish there would only be free, open source ones. Then, flamewars may ensue

 

[Blazkowicz]

Valve would need a much better solution to using Linux than current Linux distros offer. I've only used Ubuntu Linux and it doesn't come with nVidia drivers. I tried to install them and encountered nothing but problems. The installation instructions are not for the casual user:
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/ubuntu-quetzal-nvidia.html
Maybe that is just Ubuntu but Steambox can't have anything remotely close to this nightmare if they want to be user friendly.

This is a troll article. Jockey (and jockey-gtk, jockey-kde) has been deprecated. So what's the point of writing a Step 1 : Misleading Tutorial that can Fuck Up Your System, just so you can complain? The author is even more passive-agressive than me and a few weirdos I know

And on Step 2 he does an automatic installation anyway : sudo apt-get install nvidia-current

But yes, the Ubuntu release is fucked up anyway. I think he's wrong about installing kernel sources too, the kernel headers plus "build-essential" is usually enough. No talk about blacklisting the "nouveau" driver : I had to do that in a more "manual" installation of nvidia driver.
Ubuntu is transitionning : they ditch the "helper" program to install the driver so that the driver will be installed like any other piece of software (doing a mere apt-get install nvidia-current, hopefully, or searching for nvidia in the software center).

They have fucked up this transition for the 12.10 release, so really the advice to users should be :
- stay on 12.04, it's fine
- if you install 12.10, have a nvidia card and want a gaming able driver then deal with the crap or ask someone to do it for you.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

You're drawing parallels and making arguments that I was never presenting. I was only using Google as one example of where a software company has commissioned hardware and sold a product successfully, showing it can be done to those who look at Valve and say, "they're a software company who won't be able to compete on hardware." That says nothing about Valve's likely success and I wasn't drawing those parallels.

Yes, but without context that's a rather meaningless statement. Companies that launch hardware in Google's situation have at least a fair chance of success. Companies that launch with Valve's situation have a much lower chance of success.

So pointing to a company that succeeded when launching into a situation where everything that could possibly lead to success was already established doesn't mean that a company launching into a situation where the odds are heavily stacked against them will have success.

But as they say in business. If you aren't willing to take a risk you can't succeed. I just feel that in this situation, that risk is far higher than any potential reward.

Call me crazy here, but what if Valve was to build a custom Steam Linux OS variant while still supporting Steam on general Windows, Linux, and Mac OS? It could be the defacto platform for the Steambox while giving PC users a very potent software and OS framework specifically for playing games on, while still remaining open enough for users to make mods for games that support them. Valve could work with graphics companies to get very efficient and custom OpenGL drivers for Steam OS, and essentially the same piece of software you would use for Steam on Linux would be the same for Steam OS.

You still have the same situation. For this to make financial sense, Valve will have to make a decent profit margin on the console hardware (30-50%). They can't go the traditional route of software sales supporting low/negative margin console hardware sales as it is unlikely to woo a significant number of non-Steam users into buying it. Hence, sales of Steam boxes aren't going to boost sales of Steam games significantly. At least not in the first 2-5 years where they'll be attempting to build brand awareness among non-PC gamers. And in this case, what's the real advantage of a more expensive Steam box versus some other OEM box? Or even an Alienware or VoodooPC boutique gaming box?

I suppose there may be a market of Console gamers who were former PC gamers that kind of want to go back to PC gaming but without the headache's associated with PC gaming that made them switch to consoles in the first place.

The problem with that, however, is that you won't have a large library of PC games as it's limited to Linux. And why would they then want to buy a potentially far more expensive console for far fewer games?

The argument I suppose is that you could install Windows if you wanted. But will Valve then support and guarantee a flawless Windows experience? If not, you're right back to the situation that prompted those people to go to consoles in the first place.

That's why I could see some area of possibility of success with a Steam branded locked down Windows box (potentially all the benefits of Windows PC gaming without the headache), but have a hard time seeing a potential upside for a Linux based open hardware box.

Regards,
SB