Future of MS Exclusives? (Win10 & Xbox One...things)

If Microsoft make cheap xbox pc, it will be a boon for students.

NO need for expensive pc, extra physical space.

Just one xbox pc for study working campus stuff and gaming.

It also should be a nice choice for architecture students due to its gaming spec
 
Interestingly, and this passed me by, the version of Rise of the Tomb Raider sold in Microsoft's Windows store is a UWP app and differs from version sold through Steam. It looks like there are a bunch of restrictions placed upon UWP apps (reminiscent of Apple's Mac App Store) which may not appeal to gamers. HowToGeek produced this list:

  • No SLI or CrossFire: If you have multiple NVIDIA or AMD graphics cards using SLI or CrossFire, the Windows Store version won’t be good for you. It doesn’t support SLI or CrossFire, although the Steam version does.*
  • VSync is Always On: VSync is designed to eliminate screen tearing, but it can have downsides–like adding input lag, or decreasing game performance. If you have the Steam version, you can choose whether or not you want to use VSync. On the Windows Store version, it’s always enabled.
  • Always Borderless Fullscreen Mode: The Store version will always run in “borderless fullscreen” mode, also known as “fullscreen (windowed)” mode. This ensures Alt+Tab will work properly and the game won’t take over your entire display. However, it means the game can’t have exclusive access to your graphics card, so you can’t get the best possible performance. The Steam version gives you the option of using exclusive fullscreen mode.
  • Sorry, No Modding: Windows Store apps are protected, so this means modding–one of the mainstays of PC gaming–just isn’t possible. The game’s running process is protected so applications like SweetFX can’t be used to modify its graphics.
  • No .exe File (and No Steam Controller): You can’t launch the game directly as an .exe file. This means you can’t add it to Steam, for example, and that means you can’t use a Steam controller with it.
  • No Overlays: You also can’t use overlays or any other software with the game. You can’t get a Steam overlay or any other type of overlay. Software like Fraps for recording your screen and tracking your framerate won’t work, either.
  • Mouse Macros Won’t Work: Mouse utilities that allow you to create custom macros for specific games won’t work with the Windows Store version of the game.
Nixies, who did the PC port, confirmed the vsync issue. and *Microsoft clarified that SLI/CrossFire does work but needs to be supported by the game (odd the version sold by Microsoft direct doesn't support multiple cards) and that they'll fix the vsync issue.

The article includes a tweet response from Phil Spencer: We know lists like this include features PC gamers want to see from us, we appreciate the feedback and have plans to improve

UWP looks like foundation technology that is work in progress that could have bigger benefits for Xbox (whether as hardware or a software platform) in the long-term, rather than now or the near future. There are some limitations for gamers right now but if Microsoft can address those and convince developers to produce UWP applications as standard, future Xbox platforms will benefit greatly. As will consumers. Win-win?
 
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I was posting more to the fact that a $130 video card today will give you xbox one performance. So if you bought a computer from bestbuy in the last few years . Lets say 3 years for $500 . You can add a $130 and have xbox one or better performance. in the later half of the year you will have Polaris and we should see even more powerful cards , r280 down to the $130 level or less. That will give you a much better experience than even a ps4.

Then at the high end you will have even greater performance.

Very few people have a pc box you can expand. For most people your $130 is actually $130 + pc box + monitor etc.
 
Very few people have a pc box you can expand. For most people your $130 is actually $130 + pc box + monitor etc.

I'd imagine a very decent percentage of desktop PC's would be capable of taking at least a 750Ti, which is a $99 GPU without any other modification. And why would someone who already has a PC need to purchase a monitor? How do you suppose they have been interacting with the PC to date?
 
Tuna's suggesting most people have laptops or micro PCs rather than desktops. That's a fair point regards Win 10 for gaming - what proportion of PCs upgrading to Win 10 are laptops without the option for a GPU?
 
Most (none gamer) people now don't seem to have a traditional tower/desktop PC. Anecdotally, it seems to be older folks still running XP or Win 7 who don't give a shit about games.

I'm increasingly disturbed to meet people who only have their phone and a tablet, and don't even have anything with a physical keyboard attached. And laptops are the new desktops.

There is a strong PC gamer community who still like their ATX power supplies and none-stock coolers, but outside of those folks I think the proportion of upgradeable PCs (even with just a PCI-E powered 750 Ti) is diminishing.

It's another reason why a dedicated gaming device with room for a large cooler will continue to have value for MS (and Sony). The number of people who like AAA games is considerably larger than the number of people who want to buy desktop PC and then house it somewhere.
 
Tuna's suggesting most people have laptops or micro PCs rather than desktops. That's a fair point regards Win 10 for gaming - what proportion of PCs upgrading to Win 10 are laptops without the option for a GPU?

With xbox pc or xbox console, they can use thin and light surface tablet and laptop to play xbox game if they have xbox console or xbox pc (stream it).

Basically the Xbox become 'docking station' or external processing unit. Magically making xbox games played on thin and light laptop or tablet (from user perspective it should be easier than real docking or real external gpu).

NO need to buy more display device. No need to hassle with specs. Can go to campus without a heavy gaming laptop
 
Sure. That's a different argument to the one regards Win 10 and a market for games though. The discussion is whether there are enough Windows 10 PCs capable of playing games to be worth supporting. From that starting point, and an assertion 'no', we've got to 200M PCs (from somewhere) and some of them not having powerful enough GPUs, and Steam numbers, and the prospect of a cheap upgrade, to the current question as to what proportion of PC/Windows owners have a PC that can be cheaply upgraded. If these people can't upgrade, they'll have to buy a console (and maybe steam games) but the target for Win 10/UWP games will be diminshed.
 
I'm now even more confused :( probably due to the major headache I have been getting since this noon...

I mean.. Those with ugly pc not only can buy console but also have a choice to buy xbox capable pc, that they are sure will get xbox exclusive games and works fine for years without fiddling hardware and software stuff like in normal pc we have right now.

Or I did not make any sense..
 
Sure. That's a different argument to the one regards Win 10 and a market for games though. The discussion is whether there are enough Windows 10 PCs capable of playing games to be worth supporting.

Now or in the future? Because I think Microsoft are looking to the future. I think they've accepted that turning around current gen (Xbox One / PlayStation 4) console market is a big ask so they're looking not just at next gen for next-next gen as well - and have been a while. UWP are clearly designed with destop/laptop/mobile in mind but is being rapidly repurposed for gaming technology. The thing about foundations is that they take a while to lay but pay off dividends in the long-term. That's how I see UWP right now. Right now it's a novelty with a bunch of limitations. Five or ten years down the line? It could be the norm.

And there's no Sony counter. The absolute best Sony can do from this point out is stay with 80x86 and GCN to make backwards compatibility easier. If they shift either CPU or GPU architectures then they need to think about software layers (virtualisation / arbitration / emulation) to bridge hardware differences. But if UWP takes off, Microsoft aren't bound by this because UWP was designed form the outset to support very different chipset choices.
 
I highly doubt that. 5 to 10 years ago, maybe. Way way too much competition now and that competition is fighting too hard over platform control to allow it to happen.
The norm for Windows, rather than win32 runtime exes. There is no real competition in the consumer desktop OS space - not when it comes to market share.
 
Interestingly, and this passed me by, the version of Rise of the Tomb Raider sold in Microsoft's Windows store is a UWP app and differs from version sold through Steam. It looks like there are a bunch of restrictions placed upon UWP apps (reminiscent of Apple's Mac App Store) which may not appeal to gamers. HowToGeek produced this list:

  • No SLI or CrossFire: If you have multiple NVIDIA or AMD graphics cards using SLI or CrossFire, the Windows Store version won’t be good for you. It doesn’t support SLI or CrossFire, although the Steam version does.*
  • VSync is Always On: VSync is designed to eliminate screen tearing, but it can have downsides–like adding input lag, or decreasing game performance. If you have the Steam version, you can choose whether or not you want to use VSync. On the Windows Store version, it’s always enabled.
  • Always Borderless Fullscreen Mode: The Store version will always run in “borderless fullscreen” mode, also known as “fullscreen (windowed)” mode. This ensures Alt+Tab will work properly and the game won’t take over your entire display. However, it means the game can’t have exclusive access to your graphics card, so you can’t get the best possible performance. The Steam version gives you the option of using exclusive fullscreen mode.
  • Sorry, No Modding: Windows Store apps are protected, so this means modding–one of the mainstays of PC gaming–just isn’t possible. The game’s running process is protected so applications like SweetFX can’t be used to modify its graphics.
  • No .exe File (and No Steam Controller): You can’t launch the game directly as an .exe file. This means you can’t add it to Steam, for example, and that means you can’t use a Steam controller with it.
  • No Overlays: You also can’t use overlays or any other software with the game. You can’t get a Steam overlay or any other type of overlay. Software like Fraps for recording your screen and tracking your framerate won’t work, either.
  • Mouse Macros Won’t Work: Mouse utilities that allow you to create custom macros for specific games won’t work with the Windows Store version of the game.
Nixies, who did the PC port, confirmed the vsync issue. and *Microsoft clarified that SLI/CrossFire does work but needs to be supported by the game (odd the version sold by Microsoft direct doesn't support multiple cards) and that they'll fix the vsync issue.

The article includes a tweet response from Phil Spencer: We know lists like this include features PC gamers want to see from us, we appreciate the feedback and have plans to improve

UWP looks like foundation technology that is work in progress that could have bigger benefits for Xbox (whether as hardware or a software platform) in the long-term, rather than now or the near future. There are some limitations for gamers right now but if Microsoft can address those and convince developers to produce UWP applications as standard, future Xbox platforms will benefit greatly. As will consumers. Win-win?

I suggest everybody reads this:
http://www.pcgamesn.com/quantum-bre...plan-to-blur-the-line-between-pc-and-xbox-one

Remedy discusses developing the UWA of Quantum Break. No BS, no FUD. Just first hands experience on the current evolving state of UWP.
 
UWA need to be allowed to expose various config files as part of the PC deployment in order to support user tweaking. Allowing drivers to modify calls made to them (e.g. Nvidia and AMD setting overrides) would also be very welcome, particularly for AMD who keep getting done over by Gameworks.

Gameworks + UWA is not going to be a match made in heaven for anyone on the AMD end of such a proprietary spitroasting.

And also ... Bethesda PC games that you can't fix/tweak? Haha, lolol, sigh.
 
I have a question that I would like answered by anyone here who has experience making games for multiple platforms. I am not a programmer just a gamer so please forgive me if this sounds stupid.

With everything MS has announced about UWA and the Xbox/Win10 is there a possibility that UWA will affect console and PC games negatively performance wise?

Are they going to lose performance on future titles by having to target possible multiple configurations of Xbox One systems?
 
A far more important question is, IMO, whether MS will allow third parties (and indies) to release on UWA on PC and also release native Windows versions with no restrictions.

The answer to this question could either bode well for Windows gaming, or very, very badly.
 
I don't understand the logic behind this. We all know that the average PC sold is not sold as a gaming device. Most are probably sold to businesses as workplace machines. The original point was about how large the combined Microsoft gaming platform market is across PC's and XBO. That means the question should be focussed on how many PC's are in the market which are capable of playing the kind of games that Microsoft wants to sell, i.e. it doesn't matter what performance level the average new PC attains, what matters is the percentage of new PC's which meet the minimum performance level required by Microsoft for them to consider those devices as part of their target market.. And that's exactly what eastmen's point was addressing. i.e. the more powerful new PC hardware becomes, then the cheaper hardware gets at a particular performance point, thus the distribution of that performance point grows at an accelerating rate, and we're about to hit one of those bursts of acceleration.

Not really; just because intel IGPs are finally able to run some games at decent quality/framerates doesn't mean that people are now gaming on those PC's.. PC is always targeting the higher end games almost never developed for <4 years GPU technology.
 
A far more important question is, IMO, whether MS will allow third parties (and indies) to release on UWA on PC and also release native Windows versions with no restrictions.

The answer to this question could either bode well for Windows gaming, or very, very badly.
What about Rise of the Tomb Raider?
 
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