Future of MS Exclusives? (Win10 & Xbox One...things)

[Deleted member 11852]

What about Rise of the Tomb Raider?

It's arguably not a third party with free will. Would SE/Nixxes decided to do a UWP port if Microsoft hadn't stumped up a sack of gold? It's difficult to believe they would have freely committed to two versions, UWP for Microsoft's store and a regular win32 app for Steam. However I'm sure it was invaluable experience for Nixxes.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Not really; just because intel IGPs are finally able to run some games at decent quality/framerates doesn't mean that people are now gaming on those PC's.. PC is always targeting the higher end games almost never developed for <4 years GPU technology.

I'd agree that counting IGP's as part of the potential Windows 10 PC target market isn't a good idea at this stage since none of them are really powerful enough to be considered a suitable minimum spec for modern games (although it's getting close at the high end).

Nevertheless, each new GPU generation should significantly expand the number of PC's that could be considered part of Microsoft's potential market for UWA games. We're probably only 1 major APU generation shift from them being on par with the XBO at the high end. Of course, the number of high end APU's that are sold is probably quite low. I think we'll be into the next console generation before Intels mainstream IGP's are as fast as the XBO.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Not really; just because intel IGPs are finally able to run some games at decent quality/framerates doesn't mean that people are now gaming on those PC's.. PC is always targeting the higher end games almost never developed for <4 years GPU technology.

Unless you are Blizzard. In which case you target the largest demographic of gamers that can still run a relatively modern 3D engine (Dx9 or higher). Blizzard targets their games to run on hardware that is 6+ years old while offering effects that can take some advantage of newer hardware.

Probably helps explain why Blizzard PC games can regularly outsell the vast majority of multiplatform games (console + PC).

Regards,
SB

 

[Egmon83]

Xbox 360 games were amazing, and those with great art, still are. I can't believe why big studios don't target that 'platform'/ level of detail /rendering complexity. You would have 100 million capable boxes indeed. Maybe start by compiling the 360 backlog for PC? And putting all those 360 titles in the MS Store?

 

[liolio]

Probably just faster console cycle?

Instead of every 10 year. New console every 3 yearss

Kr every 1 year and also brings the contract subscription option back.

well the move to such a model would be a better fit for a straight forward system with a discrete cpu and gpu that can be updated separetedly as progress are made on the differents components (cpu, gpu, ram v-ram). The thing is that soc are tempting for cost. Another thing is that it is the worst time ever to move to such an approach as progress are significantly slowing down and silicon cost goes up.
As for msft looking at the constrained design choices for durango it does not look like upgradability was a concern. Now they are failing to capture any momemtum with their new store whereas they let out in the cold a lot copy of their last OS.. for free. They will try whatever they have to get it started (it is more the PC business that is in their mind, the One is just one of the last tool they have left to get PC where they want). UWA might do nothing for consoles but it may not tick well to the PC audience, risky move imho.
As for Sony well customer may still want console and its unified experience, the cumulated sales of the XB1 and the PS4 are a testament to that (I do believe that the longer last gen had people to upgrade earlier than they usually do yet, big sales figures).

I had hope in MSFT new boss but lets face it it is a financial guy those guy don't achieve shit, they manage shit or extend business through buy out.

 

[eastmen]

well the move to such a model would be a better fit for a straight forward system with a discrete cpu and gpu that can be updated separetedly as progress are made on the differents components (cpu, gpu, ram v-ram). The thing is that soc are tempting for cost. Another thing is that it is the worst time ever to move to such an approach as progress are significantly slowing down and silicon cost goes up.
As for msft looking at the constrained design choices for durango it does not look like upgradability was a concern. Now they are failing to capture any momemtum with their new store whereas they let out in the cold a lot copy of their last OS.. for free. They will try whatever they have to get it started (it is more the PC business that is in their mind, the One is just one of the last tool they have left to get PC where they want). UWA might do nothing for consoles but it may not tick well to the PC audience, risky move imho.
As for Sony well customer may still want console and its unified experience, the cumulated sales of the XB1 and the PS4 are a testament to that (I do believe that the longer last gen had people to upgrade earlier than they usually do yet, big sales figures).

I had hope in MSFT new boss but lets face it it is a financial guy those guy don't achieve shit, they manage shit or extend business through buy out.

I think your being to much of a chicken little.

Yes micron drops are slowing. But did you know the Geforce gtx 680 was the first Nvidia card on 28nm. The jump from the 680 to the 980ti is nothing short of amazing. You'd go from 35fps in battlefield to 78 at 1440p . Its the same generation micron node.

So for instance MS would be able to release a console next year taking advantage of 14nm and then a year or two down the line release a gpu for it that takes advantage of a new design giving much better performance.

Or MS can put out a Zen plus GCN and sell it as a system. But oh you want xbox vr ? Well here is a second GCN to keep performance the same in all games with the vr helmet

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10133/amd-xconnect-external-radeons





Or hey ... Want that awesome surface pro but also want to game. Here you go




The trick would be the price premium. I would imagine MS wouldn't want you to be able to upgrade the xbox except with a specific card.

But the tech is there. Heck if the casing sans graphics card was a $100 I would buy it if I had a laptop or tablet it worked with. I would then put my old card in there when my main rig got updated

 

[Egmon83]

2011 called, they want their wishful thinking back
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/88370-sony-vaio-z-thunderbolt-price-macs-look-cheap

 

[eastmen]

2011 called, they want their wishful thinking back
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/88370-sony-vaio-z-thunderbolt-price-macs-look-cheap

don't get the point of your post. That's a sony product from a failed venture (the vaio line) and was extremely expensive.

We know the cost of graphics cards. There is no reason why MS can't make an affordable breakout box using new thunderbolt designs. We also know they can do crossfire and see gains even with an older gpu and a newer gpu.

The only question is cost. Which shouldn't be sky high

 

[Egmon83]

"the trick would be the price premium"

 

[eastmen]

"the trick would be the price premium"

You'd have to figure it out.

An R7 370 costs about $140 online right now. That is with 2 gigs of ram and cooling with amazon , gigabyte and amd making money off the thing.

It has a 1024 stream processors , 64 texture units , 32 rops , 925mhz clock speed with 975mhz ram (5.6Gbps). Its good enough for ultra quality 1080p Shadow of mordor at 40 fps which is something the ps4 can't do or 40fps at 1080p ultra quality for dragon age inquisition.

Ms could go with an r7 370 class chip with 4 gigs of ram (that's what games are limited to anyway) for about $100-$150

They'd be able to use crossfire to up performance using the apu inside the one.

But the xbox one doesn't have a port for this. So it would have to be designed for a next gen system

 

[AzBat]

Didn't see the need to start a new thread, so I'm posting this here.

Looks like XB1 is getting full UWP support. It's not there yet, but it will get there.

Xbox runs Windows 10, version 1607, which means that it shares the same core operating system as other devices in the Windows 10 family: desktop, mobile, and HoloLens. But, because this is the first release of the Universal Windows Platform (UWP) on Xbox, there are some feature areas that haven’t reached the same level of support on Xbox as they have on other devices. In this topic are details on some of the feature areas that your UWP app might use that don’t currently function as fully on Xbox. All APIs are callable and will fail gracefully if they’re unsupported. As we flight and service Windows, we’ll continue implementing, testing, and bugfixing until all of the Universal device family API surface is fully operational on Xbox.

http://www.winbeta.org/news/universal-windows-10-apps-coming-xbox-features-not-yet-supported

The article links a MSDN page with more details but the content has been removed. Tried looking for a cache of it & came up empty. At least they mentioned some of the things though that are not working:

tile, toast, and badge notifications, as well as the Share contract will not be available during this first go-around.

I think more details will show up today during BUILD. Keynote starts in less than an hour.

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

Looks like UWP coming to Xbox One this summer with the free Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Also, every retail XB1 will become a devkit as well.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/30/11319514/windows-10-anniversary-update-announced/in/11095515

Tommy

 

[Scott_Arm]

Looks like UWP coming to Xbox One this summer with the free Windows 10 Anniversary Update. Also, every retail XB1 will become a devkit as well.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/30/11319514/windows-10-anniversary-update-announced/in/11095515

Tommy

Yep, Cortana, UWP, dev kit support and a new universal store. Pretty big update. I hope this comes with keyboard and mouse support.

Dev kit is available in preview form starting today, but make sure to read the instructions and limitations! http://www.polygon.com/2016/3/30/11318568/xbox-one-dev-kit

 

[BRiT]

XboxOne already supports keyboard, but not for game playing.

 

[AzBat]

Yep, saw the Cortana news briefly. I also think Phil mentioned background music support coming with the summer update. Looks like they won't have too many big features left to implement after this summer, but I think he said they have some more features for the summer update to announce at E3.

Tommy McClain

 

[BRiT]

Yep, Cortana, UWP, dev kit support and a new universal store. Pretty big update. I hope this comes with keyboard and mouse support.

Dev kit is available in preview form starting today, but make sure to read the instructions and limitations! http://www.polygon.com/2016/3/30/11318568/xbox-one-dev-kit

About the DevKit and Preview programs...

As you may have heard at the Microsoft Build 2016 conference today, there's a new Developer Preview program which allows anyone to turn their Xbox One console into a development kit.

Here are a few things to keep in mind if you're currently in Xbox One Preview and interested in joining Developer Preview:

If your console is currently enrolled in Xbox One Preview, you will not be able to join Developer Preview until you unenroll from Xbox One Preview.
Your console cannot be enrolled in both Xbox One Preview and Developer Preview simultaneously.
If you choose to join Developer Preview and leave at a later time, you will be eligible to rejoin Xbox One Preview.
Please keep in mind that Developer Preview is intended for developers; if you don't intend to use your console for development, joining Developer Preview is not recommended .
You can find more information about Developer Preview below:

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/

After activating your console for the Developer Preview via the Dev Mode Activation App (Available in the Store), your console will update to the current Developer Preview OS version. (Note that this is an early look an upcoming System Update and you may run into issues during use.) Once updated, you’ll be able to flip your console to Developer Mode and back to Retail via the Dev Mode Activation and Dev Center apps. Retail games and app will not be available on your console while it is in Dev Mode and likewise, any apps and games you’ve created will not be available while in Retail mode.

To remove a console from the Developer Preview, you’ll need to deactivate your console from the Developer Preview. This can be done though the Dev Mode Activation app or online under your account in Dev Center. Doing so will result in a Factory Reset of your console and return it to the currently available OS version.

You can re-enroll your console into the Xbox Preview Program after you've deactivated it from the Developer Preview.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I think you're console gets wiped when you first enrol in developer preview. Probably want to check that before going ahead. External hdd for games might be a good idea so you don't have to reinstall/download

 

[AzBat]

The rumor about Xbox One interface coming to Windows 10, was characterized as something like Steam's "Big Picture" mode. But what if it's more than that? What if they bring the XB1's Game OS/Virtual Machine to Windows 10? Basically a "Universal Xbox Platform" or UXP? Is that something that's possible? Spencer has already stated that UWP on XB1 is basically only their app platform & he expect's games will still go through the standard XDK or ID@Xbox & not UWP. Thoughts?

Tommy McClain

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The rumor about Xbox One interface coming to Windows 10, was characterized as something like Steam's "Big Picture" mode. But what if it's more than that? What if they bring the XB1's Game OS/Virtual Machine to Windows 10?

Xbox One's VM is tuned for Xbox One hardware and likewise the software running within it. But bringing a kiosk-mode for gaming to Windows 10 is what I'm expecting. Who knows when it'll arrive though and the bigger question, will is support third party ecosystems like Steam?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

The rumor about Xbox One interface coming to Windows 10, was characterized as something like Steam's "Big Picture" mode. But what if it's more than that? What if they bring the XB1's Game OS/Virtual Machine to Windows 10? Basically a "Universal Xbox Platform" or UXP? Is that something that's possible? Spencer has already stated that UWP on XB1 is basically only their app platform & he expect's games will still go through the standard XDK or ID@Xbox & not UWP. Thoughts?

Tommy McClain

Unlikely, as DSoup mentions, the virtual game environment for XBO is tuned to the hardware in XBO. There's no technical reason why it isn't possible to do the same for PC. However, there are practical reasons why it would be improbably. Not the least of which is the near infinite hardware combinations that are possible making it unlikely you'd want to attempt to tune a VM to each possible hardware configuration or even groups of hardware configurations. Also, not all PC hardware has a CPU that is capable of assisting in running a VM. Not having that would have a significant impact on the performance of the VM and thus the game.

Much easier to have the console have a hardware configuration as close to a PC as possible. Just code the games for PC/UWP and then put it into the game OS/VM of the console. Hopefully with a traditional PC UI/menus and Xbox UI/menus as options. Nothing I hate more than ports taking the lazy way out and put hugely wasteful console menus in their PC ports. Even better when you can't even navigate them with a mouse. Even betterer when you don't even have a controller hooked up to your machine and the game prompts still use A/B/X/Y console controller button prompts.

Regards,
SB