The SB stuff is pretty basic / lowendish compared to dedicated controllers
Fusion die-shot - 2009 Analyst Day
- Thread starter AnarchX
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The SB stuff is pretty basic / lowendish compared to dedicated controllers
Blazkowicz
Legend
the SB's controllers do appear as PCI devices still (PCIe ones do as well). from the software layer's side of view they kept it the same I think.
you can even say there's an ISA bus somewhere down there, spiritual or not, that deals with the real time clock, keyboard controller, floppy etc.
you can afterall still hook up a keyboard from the 1980s, whether AT or PS/2, or even a 5"25 low density floppy drive to your brand new 2010 PC would you feel the need to.
you can even say there's an ISA bus somewhere down there, spiritual or not, that deals with the real time clock, keyboard controller, floppy etc.
you can afterall still hook up a keyboard from the 1980s, whether AT or PS/2, or even a 5"25 low density floppy drive to your brand new 2010 PC would you feel the need to.
GbE, USB2 (3 coming with fusion), SATA6Gbit all seem to be on SB....
Blazkowicz
Legend
where does this thing come from?
it feels so weird, with VGA missing at the low end where it's needed the most, bizarre crippling rules (not to mention no one will ever buy a computer without ethernet) and unintelligible acronyms.
actually first thing I spot is the creative use of the difference between "10/100/1000" and "Y"
Well, wouldn't it make sense to abandon these legacy busses and save the space for something more important or a size reduction in relation to the Fusion die?
The devices can be supported through PCIE easily with an add-on card.
Blazkowicz
Legend
instead of HT 3.x you're seeing the same solution Intel adopted for socket 1156 and newer Atoms ; as for the graphical PCIe lines, let's say 8x at 2.0 speed is good enough
Blazkowicz
Legend
let's look at how much does the cheapest PCI NIC costs vs cheapest PCIe NIC, same for disk or USB controllers, and whether customers who actually care about slots in the first place will be able to stick in an already owned sound card or tuner..
nothing wrong with the typical micro ATX board, and you can install a PCIe 1x board on the 16x slot.
dropping PCI also means dropping support for an extremely wide range of acquisition cards, specialised cards, FPGA stuff, good old serial/parallel which might be more useful than what you think, and dealing with 33MHz might be more affordable than high frequency serial stuff for a small company or even individual building a board.
last but not least I like using an old workhorse HP laserjet, or using a SCSI scanner instead of buying a new one
give me more fun not less.
this llano plateform also pretty much becomes the de facto general purpose PC platform anywhere it's powerful enough, and it's damn powerful already. will have extremely wide ranges of use, just like current and past PC hardware. (and just like Intel's own Fusion-like platform which is either at the turn of the corner, or already there with core i3 depending on how you look at it)
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aaronspink
Veteran
Actually, raid5 is pretty standard on home media and NAS.
Blazkowicz
Legend
from a quick search on a store, it's not here on 760g, 785g and 880g (SB710) but is here on 790GX and 890GX (SB750, SB850).
market segmentation more than anything else ; I'd assume like you that raid 5 was standard nowadays.
quick check on other vendor : every nvidia board supports it down to the geforce 6150 though I'm not sure that multi-terabyte raid 5 on motherboard is a good idea.
market segmentation more than anything else ; I'd assume like you that raid 5 was standard nowadays.
quick check on other vendor : every nvidia board supports it down to the geforce 6150
though I'm not sure that multi-terabyte raid 5 on motherboard is a good idea.let's look at how much does the cheapest PCI NIC costs vs cheapest PCIe NIC, same for disk or USB controllers, and whether customers who actually care about slots in the first place will be able to stick in an already owned sound card or tuner..
nothing wrong with the typical micro ATX board, and you can install a PCIe 1x board on the 16x slot.
dropping PCI also means dropping support for an extremely wide range of acquisition cards, specialised cards, FPGA stuff, good old serial/parallel which might be more useful than what you think, and dealing with 33MHz might be more affordable than high frequency serial stuff for a small company or even individual building a board.
last but not least I like using an old workhorse HP laserjet, or using a SCSI scanner instead of buying a new one
give me more fun not less.
this llano plateform also pretty much becomes the de facto general purpose PC platform anywhere it's powerful enough, and it's damn powerful already. will have extremely wide ranges of use, just like current and past PC hardware. (and just like Intel's own Fusion-like platform which is either at the turn of the corner, or already there with core i3 depending on how you look at it)
I'll admit that I am far from those thoughts, as we only use Apple computers, at work and home. As far as I see those ("obsolete") connectors they are just a ball and chain locked around your leg, slowing you down (e.g. costing die area).
I understand that there is some demand for legacy support but this seems to be very specialized cases these days.
Are you looking at it, primarily, from a consumer point of view?
Right now I am really looking forward to LightPeak or any similar technology that will replace the myriad of silly dongs and dingies sticking out from our computers. One connector / bus to rule them all.
For all I know, the point with this new breed of computers, is that everything needed is integrated.
Blazkowicz
Legend
sure light peaks is interesting, and I hope it doesn't end up a semi-disaster like USB 2 with resource use and throughput problems. (I don't know about how USB 3 behaves, well USB 3 is like a new thing altogether hiding in a mixed USB2/USB3 connector). well, I suppose it will be a nice thought out standard just like sata, PCIe and others have been
nothing wrong if you want something more integrated, laptops and mini-ITX are for that (with more part of the southbridge connections harmlessly going to nowhere)
PCI support is so cheap, been affordable for so long and is present in some system-on-chip processors. it doesn't hold much things back imo, just as I don't think the audio jack bringing sound to my amp or the ethernet cable bringing packets to my computer hold things back because they are old.
nothing wrong if you want something more integrated, laptops and mini-ITX are for that (with more part of the southbridge connections harmlessly going to nowhere)
PCI support is so cheap, been affordable for so long and is present in some system-on-chip processors. it doesn't hold much things back imo, just as I don't think the audio jack bringing sound to my amp or the ethernet cable bringing packets to my computer hold things back because they are old.
There are many industrial PC's where these connectors are essential. AMD would take itself out of that market if they did not provide them.
Have I missed something, or was this common knowledge?
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2010/8/8/amds-godfrey-cheng-adamant-about-discrete-gpus.aspx
According to the newspiece, the GPU on Llano would be Redwood, aka 400 SP, not 480 or 240
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2010/8/8/amds-godfrey-cheng-adamant-about-discrete-gpus.aspx
According to the newspiece, the GPU on Llano would be Redwood, aka 400 SP, not 480 or 240
Only according to BSN reporter it's redwood. The original article BSN quotes says NOTHING about redwood or number of shaders.
Just old rumours circulating again, no actual information here.
(and BSN == BullShitNews, they tend to speak lots of BS, like their Apple A4 article which talked about A9 cpu and mali graphics core, both wrong.)
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Blazkowicz
Legend
I interpret it as no VGA, DVI/LVDS only.
hoom
Veteran
Hmm, looking at that table again & remembering to look at the earlier diagram I'm now quite confused.
The diagram shows the VGA DAC on the Fusion chip rather than the hub/southbridge chip.
But the table is clearly talking about the southbridge chip.
If AMD were going to let NV in then they'd presumably be selling the Fusion chip sans southbridge
Hmm, looking at that table again & remembering to look at the earlier diagram I'm now quite confused.
The diagram shows the VGA DAC on the Fusion chip rather than the hub/southbridge chip.
But the table is clearly talking about the southbridge chip.
If AMD were going to let NV in then they'd presumably be selling the Fusion chip sans southbridge
No need to be confused - Ontario features VGA DAC, thus Ontario SB's don't feature such, while Llano doesn't feature VGA DAC, and needs one on the SB to be capable of analog output
It's really quite simple to figure that out, the SB-diagram features VGA DAC only on Llano-platforms, and the other diagram which has Fusion APU in the diagram too, and VGA DAC mentioned, has Hudson-D1/M1 which are meant for Ontario as seen on the SB-diagram
Yes, this makes sense, but what about the gbit ethernet/sd controller? Surely a platform based on Ontario needs a SD card controller, it makes little sense to use external (usb) chip on a budget platform imho. Same thing for ethernet, unless you think it won't have ethernet at all.