Forum status of downloaded content

[Frank]

Yes, this might belong in site feedback. But I put it here. Ok, to the point.

There are roughly three distinctions to make about downloaded audio/visual media and software:

1: Was it paid for (if required, see below), freeware, or illegal?

2. Do the local laws of the poster allow it?

3. Is the producer losing money by it?

Not required but interesting nevertheless:

4. Do you want the producer to profit?

And last:

5. Is this board facing legal consequences if we just talk openly about these things?


Regardless, who are we to uphold the moral high ground and/or the profit margin of the producers? Why should we? And think about the global aspect, please! Not everyone lives in the US and all that!

While I do have a very developed view about all this, I would like it very much to hear about all the different points of view about such a controversial subject here.

And let's not tell others they're wrong, but just post your opinion about it.

 

[Mize]

Huh?
I know, I'm dense, but this post reads like "hey, people are posing copyrighted material here for download so what do you folks think about it" and that doesn't jibe with my experience of B3D's forums. So am I reading it wrong?

 

[digitalwanderer]

<........................................>

 

[Frank]

Hm. Ok.

Let's say it like this: "I just downloaded xxx, and..." is an accepted topic opener in many non-US, non-global boards. Most, I think, globally. WHY is it not possible to openly accept and discuss these things? I get the possible legal angle, but that's about where it ends most of the time.

And to pre-empt a lot of stuff: I'm in the selling software business myself, thank you very much.

 

[Mize]

Hm. Ok.

Let's say it like this: "I just downloaded xxx, and..." is an accepted topic opener in many non-US, non-global boards. Most, I think, globally. WHY is it not possible to openly accept and discuss these things? I get the possible legal angle, but that's about where it ends most of the time.

And to pre-empt a lot of stuff: I'm in the selling software business myself, thank you very much.

Ah - you mean discussion of BitTorrent. Don't use it. Would have years ago in my impoverished days and understand it now.

 

[Frank]

Ah - you mean discussion of BitTorrent. Don't use it. Would have years ago in my impoverished days and understand it now.

How about the European and Asian people who feel stupid about actually paying for stuff, without any chance whatsoever of facing legal consequences for just downloading and using it? Except for Germans from next year on, that is.

And let's face it: those producers are just faceless, extremely wealthy American companies in almost all cases, so why would we care? Do they care about us?

But that might be related to the way people regard the US goverment at the moment.

 

[Frank]

Btw, it's always huge, American companies, who demand that our governments punish everyone severely who doesn't make them even richer by importing their expensive goods.


Ok, I know that is just emotions speaking, but that is how most people react when asked.



Edit: Next thing we know, is that any American expects everyone else around the world to understand and speak English...

 

[Humus]

Hm. Ok.

Let's say it like this: "I just downloaded xxx, and..." is an accepted topic opener in many non-US, non-global boards. Most, I think, globally.

I'm not so sure about that. On the few Swedish language forums I've been frequenting talking about warez would be enough to get banned.

 

[epicstruggle]

diguru, your position on this is quite offensive.

WHAT YOU SAY:
So its ok to steal from the rich? Its ok to steal if you cant get caught? And its ok to steal if its from americans?

IN REALITY:

Your actually ok with stealing from anyone irregardless of whether its a "rich" publisher or not. Do you check before every download whether or not your going to hurt the rich??? Your actually ok with stealing irregardless of location of the publisher! Do you check where the programmers are from before every download??



Didnt you post a while back that your software company went under because of people werent paying for your work? Unfortunatly devopoling games, OS's, applications, movies, .... arent without some costs some quite considerable. Is bethesda forcing you to buy their latest game? Is microsoft twisting your arm to purchase their operating system? Is rarlabs pushing your face down the toilet, forcing you to use their decompression program???

Exactly where in any enumarated human rights list has it been noted that your entitled to free software, movies, games, ....


Let me leave you with 2 examples:
--Dreamcast (example of where piracy can cause a product to be shutdown)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DreamCast#Technology

--Openssh/OpenBsd: (example where a free product, isnt able to be supported through donation only)
http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/239/1/


Dont f'cking kid yourself, if you think that downloading/pirating doesnt effect real people, it does.

epic

 

[KimB]

Let me leave you with 2 examples:
--Dreamcast (example of where piracy can cause a product to be shutdown)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DreamCast#Technology

Oh, come on. Just because there was some amount of piracy for the Dreamcast, doesn't mean there was any reason to suspect that it had anything to do with the console's demise. After all, it was relatively easy to pirate for the #1 console of its age, the Playstation.

--Openssh/OpenBsd: (example where a free product, isnt able to be supported through donation only)
http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/239/1/

So? I mean, sure, it'd be nice if they could get the dough to keep that product going, but that doesn't mean that the product will fall from existence even if they don't. The fact that it's open means that anybody can pick up the slack, and will if OpenBSD has further financial troubles and stops supporting it. Besides, this news item is about as far removed from software piracy as you can get.

 

[Guden Oden]

Dont f'cking kid yourself, if you think that downloading/pirating doesnt effect real people, it does.

Only if you'd otherwise bought the software if you hadn't downloaded it.

Typically, most people wouldn't have bought the stuff they download anyway. Like for instance, who the hell can afford stuff like adobe photoshop or 3d studio or a whole bunch of other application software with price tags of many hundreds of $. This goes for games too I might add.

Not that this makes piracy any more right, I'm just providing a counterweight to your emotionally charged statement that it seemingly irregardless of other circumstances "hurts" people...

Actually, in some cases piracy might actually help sales just as it does within the music business for example, by making people take notice of software they otherwise wouldn't have tried, and then they go out and buy it. Again, the practice might still be wrong per se, but as is often the case "in the real world" as you say, it's not always a clear-cut line between black and white, right and wrong.

 

[Frank]

I didn't start this thread to advocate downloading stuff. While I do that, I pay for anything I use myself, if required. But it happens, on a huge scale. We can pretend it doesn't, or just disallow talking about it. But that won't make it go away.

And in many countries it's not illegal. It's mostly frowned upon in public. Although those large US constitutions spare no expenses to make it so. Regardless, if we like it or not, are we taking the line of those corporations, for modesty, pretending or fear of legal consequences? Or are we just going to be honest about it?

As downloading copyrighted media is perfectly legal over here, companies are even using that in their advertizing. Although they take care not to say outrigth that they're talking about copyrighted material, they make it clear that's what they mean.

So, why should we have to pretend things are different than they really are? To be politically correct?

 

[Frank]

diguru, your position on this is quite offensive.

WHAT YOU SAY:
So its ok to steal from the rich? Its ok to steal if you cant get caught? And its ok to steal if its from americans?

Where did I say that? I didn't. I just said it happens, on a huge scale. I would want to bet any money with you, that there are more games and media downloaded than bought, globally.

IN REALITY:

Your actually ok with stealing from anyone irregardless of whether its a "rich" publisher or not. Do you check before every download whether or not your going to hurt the rich??? Your actually ok with stealing irregardless of location of the publisher! Do you check where the programmers are from before every download??



Didnt you post a while back that your software company went under because of people werent paying for your work? Unfortunatly devopoling games, OS's, applications, movies, .... arent without some costs some quite considerable. Is bethesda forcing you to buy their latest game? Is microsoft twisting your arm to purchase their operating system? Is rarlabs pushing your face down the toilet, forcing you to use their decompression program???

Exactly where in any enumarated human rights list has it been noted that your entitled to free software, movies, games, ....

What's the use, if there is no way you can enforce it?

If we go by your reasoning, you would want to make it illegal to take pictures of anything copyrighted. Like, Madonna being a trademark and allowing only legally bought pictures of herself. Is that going to happen? And, as Guden said, it's good marketing. If that person has the money and likes that picture enough, they might want to buy an official copy.

 

[KimB]

Where did I say that? I didn't. I just said it happens, on a huge scale. I would want to bet any money with you, that there are more games and media downloaded than bought, globally.

Oh, I doubt that very much. For example, in Southeast Asia, where most of the pirating happens, the majority of piracy comes from CD/DVD's sold in stores for a dollar or so a piece. Downloading software/media without paying surely doesn't outweigh purchases in the West.

 

[Frank]

Oh, I doubt that very much. For example, in Southeast Asia, where most of the pirating happens, the majority of piracy comes from CD/DVD's sold in stores for a dollar or so a piece. Downloading software/media without paying surely doesn't outweigh purchases in the West.

Yes, I agree. And for those western people who have the money to pay, it's mostly good marketing: try before you buy.