tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
F1 will be dead if the FIA decides to really go with the plan to reduce the amount of rear wing to only above the tyres and leave the space in between empty.
Just let the teams build stuff like this
Formula 1 - The Eco Friendly Motorsport!
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
F1 will be dead if the FIA decides to really go with the plan to reduce the amount of rear wing to only above the tyres and leave the space in between empty.
Just let the teams build stuff like this
Keep us updatedEDIT: BTW, I'll be working on one upcoming soft-hybrid engine soon, so I'll be able to tell you more sometime next year
AFAIK the teams are suggesting alternate solutions with the same goal in mind.
Jawed
Legend
Hmm, this is quite interesting as it seems to be pointing ultimately at all wheel drive using per-wheel electric motors, perhaps?
With all wheels driven like this, you can run the engine more efficiently as a "generator", with lowered transmission losses (no gears) and direct electronic control of the drive to all four wheels.
If you could then work out a way of combining a motor and generator per wheel, so that in generation mode it acts like a mild brake, you'd cut down on the hardware overhead per wheel, perhaps.
Jawed
With all wheels driven like this, you can run the engine more efficiently as a "generator", with lowered transmission losses (no gears) and direct electronic control of the drive to all four wheels.
If you could then work out a way of combining a motor and generator per wheel, so that in generation mode it acts like a mild brake, you'd cut down on the hardware overhead per wheel, perhaps.
Jawed
What about a flywheel? (perhaps with counter-rotating parts to prevent nasty gyroscopic issues)
I think the best F1 car would be something like this:
* Four autonomous wheels, each with an electric motor on the chassis, connected to it with a short axle, that also functions as brake. And direct electric steering for all four wheels (steer by wire).
* A Li-ion battery pack, that is simply replaced for a full one in the pit.
* A big capacitor to store braking energy and for speed boosts, or one for each motor.
I don't think that would be more heavy than what is used now, and the acceleration could be tyre-ripping fast. And it's not as they would need to drive a long time on a single battery pack, or recharge it while in the car.
The capacitor(s) would be a bit dangerous, but that doesn't matter for F1.
And the traction control possible with the four independent powered and steerable wheels would be incredible. Although it would look very odd, seeing the wheels move like that, especially when cornering.
Edit: and they should use brushless motors.
* Four autonomous wheels, each with an electric motor on the chassis, connected to it with a short axle, that also functions as brake. And direct electric steering for all four wheels (steer by wire).
* A Li-ion battery pack, that is simply replaced for a full one in the pit.
* A big capacitor to store braking energy and for speed boosts, or one for each motor.
I don't think that would be more heavy than what is used now, and the acceleration could be tyre-ripping fast. And it's not as they would need to drive a long time on a single battery pack, or recharge it while in the car.
The capacitor(s) would be a bit dangerous, but that doesn't matter for F1.
And the traction control possible with the four independent powered and steerable wheels would be incredible. Although it would look very odd, seeing the wheels move like that, especially when cornering.
Edit: and they should use brushless motors.
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Nah. Small and very fast flywheels are way too dangerous.
That's easy. And with the motors likely to be used, you don't even need a mechanical brake assist.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
That would make for a very boring car though. You wouldnt hear any sound at all, people wont like that. Better put in big turbocharged V12's wich makes the hair in your neck stand up.
Besides, wouldnt be a engine to each wheel to heavy? there've been some 4wd F1 cars but they always failed because it was to heavy. Now I have no idea how that relates to the weight of electric motors but you'll need pretty strong motors so it could be to heavy. And wouldnt be to much weight in the front be bad for the handling? You want as much weight as possible in the middle and towards the back.
Also I dont think the FIA will like a bit dangerous capicitators. As they've tried to bring back the speed of cars for the last 20+ years or so I doubt they want anyone to be electrocuted.
Amplify the sound of the electric motors. That would be quite awesome as well. They sound more like a plane, though.
They're not that big and heavy. The weight is in the battery pack, which you can put at the back.
The risk of the capacitors blowing up or electrocuting the driver is pretty low with good maintenance. A lot lower than crashing the car, I think.
FYI, they don't fly everything everywhere. Most of the stuff, the stuff that doesn't have to change right up to race start, goes by boat, so it is sent along quite a while before the first race in a given region.
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Is that for all teams ? I mean Renault and Ferrari were pretty good with their engine at the end of last season, how will the other teams catch up ?
I agree. I think they should have rules like limiting the size of the car to reasonable size, that allow racing on those tracks but doesn't impede on performance and speed. But beside that, they should just went all out and design the fastest thing on at least four wheels and get the best driver in it. If that means dropping to 5-6 teams so be it. Backmarker are only impeding on the frontrunner races anyway.
Limiting the cars so the crappy teams can be competitive just doesn't work with me.
F1 will outperform Indy on any tracks even on oval.
Surely the stress involved in a flywheel is not going to be worse than what goes on in current F1 engine, is it? Anyway, I'd guess any energy storage/retrieval system for a high performance vehicle is going to have to nearly the same energy density as an explosive.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Yes but in today's F1 cars you will have a very big chance of surviving even a heavy crash. Even without any serious injurys. And what will happen to the capacitators if you crash? I dont think the FIA is keen on having anything where there is a chance of getting the same effect as the old F1 cars catching fire when they crashed.
Not. The teams had to submit the engine they were going to use at the end of last season. They can only change parts that effect the reliability of the engine (wich is kinda strange because its not strange to think a part that will improve reliability will also improve speed) and you have to get permission from the FIA.
Yes, storing that much energy in a small package is going to be a safety problem in any case. But those flywheels operate close to the limit of the best materials we've got (a metal, donut-shaped weight in a thick carbon fibre housing embedded in epoxy and such). You need a large and heavy metal cage to contain that. Especially when you really want magnetic bearings for best performance.
While a capacitor can blow up, you can direct that energy without having to worry about gyroscopic effects. And in case of a crash, most of the energy can be released electrically.
When you're inside a metal cage, you don't need to worry about electrical discharges outside it at all.
I am sorry but F1 is no fun anymore. It was at its epitome at the beginning era of Michael Schumacher's reign and when Prost and Senna were around. Now it is just a bunch of pansies and prima donnas and controversies with unsportsmanliek conduct and more wings and downforce on a car than required for the hp out put those cars are making. I want to see F1 cars overtake each other in the race not in the pits. I Want to see those bad boys slide. I want to see V12s back in the game or the V10s. I want to see no computer controlled launch starts. Motogp is where its at. More skill, more racing, more overatking, crashes, and looks like despite dropping the capcaity of the engines the bikes are going even faster!
