First NV31 Announcement Rumors...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1041265473

Perhaps by CeBit, we'll also have some actual reviews of the NV30 as well. ;)

The NV31 is expected to utilise numerous technologies introduced in the GeForce FX VPU and also offer comparable performance to the GeForce4 Ti4600 with antialiasing and anisotropic filtering enabled. Generally speaking, the NV31 code-named products will compete with the RADEON 9500 PRO and 9700-based solutions, so, it is very logically for them to be cheap enough.

That's an interesting way to state performance....to the point where I don't know how that compares to the 9500 Pro and 9700. ;) Need to go check some benchmarks....
 
Very logical?

I thought it was logical or not logical.
There reasoning that it should be 'comparable' to GF4 Ti4600 in AA and AF speed and then to state that it will compete with Radeon 9500 PRO and the Radeon 9700 (NON PRO) - leads them to the conclusion that it will be 'cheap enough'.

Sorry I am just trying to mentally sort out what it is they said in my head.

OK... so NV31 = GF4 Ti4600 in AA and AF performance
R9500 PRO and R9700 > GF4 Ti4600 in AA and AF performance

Therefore NV31 = GF4 Ti4600 performance level with DX9 (in AA and AF) and thus it is conclusively proven that the NV31 will be cheap.

That's one line.
The other line is that this post has been a lesson in tautology only.

If I were me, which I am, I would go with the latter.
 
The NV31 is expected to utilise numerous technologies introduced in the GeForce FX VPU and also offer comparable performance to the GeForce4 Ti4600, but with possible improvements in antialiasing and anisotropic filtering speed.

Now it says "..possible improvements......"
 
Now it says "..possible improvements......"

So does this mean xbit is as clueless as the rest of us and is just guessing and is thus being conservative? Or do they know something and therefore 'correcting' themselves....

The soap opera continues...
 
Joe DeFuria said:
Now it says "..possible improvements......"

So does this mean xbit is as clueless as the rest of us and is just guessing and is thus being conservative? Or do they know something and therefore 'correcting' themselves....

The soap opera continues...

To my mind it means they actually know jack, diddily, squat but make it sound as if they 'know' of new info others haven't guessed already. I mean the NV31 = the budget range compared to NV30, we all can easily assume that... we all can easily assume it will not be as fast as the NV30, we all can therefore assume it will not be as fast as the 9700 PRO but is meant to compete with the ATI budget/mid range cards of the DX9 variety.

The best bit that we can easily assume is that the NV31 will be utilising a core that is cheaper to produce or speed binned (possibly).

So what news info does xbit have? Jack, Diddily, Squat.

Okely Dokely. :D

Of course I have to add the disclaimer that I a could be completely wrong... and now for something completely different.

EDIT: stuff
 
This is the same X-bit that was claiming on their forums that Nv30 existed in silicon during the spring.
Get out a good russion translator and browse through their forums.
 
And now we can also assume that the NV31 is not even based on DX9, by reading a little into what The Inquirer wrote.
:oops:

EDIT: what DT said above.. he hit the reply button before me :eek: , heh.
 
Yet it supports PS 1.4
eek7.gif



....nahhhh
 
http://www.hardware.fr/news/lire/30-12-2002/

French:
Selon The Inq, c'est au CeBIT que NVIDIA devrait présenter le NV31, et donc a priori le NV34. Déclinaison moins chère (et bien entendu moins performante) du GeForce FX (ex-NV30), le NV31 devrait se positionner en face du Radeon 9500 Pro voire du Radeon 9700.

Le NV34 sera l'entrée de gamme DirectX 9 de NVIDIA, en face du RV350 de ATI qui pourrait également être annoncé au CeBIT. C'est également à cette période que le R350 d'ATI, concurent du GeForce FX en terme de performance, sera lancé. Bref, le mois de mars risque d'être chargé du côté des puces graphiques !

My quick translation:
Nvidia launches NV31 & NV34 at Cebit, NV31 is gonna be faster as R9500Pro and maybe R9700. (xBit says otherwise)
NV34 = cut-down NV30 wich will compete against RV350.

xBit gets out some 'info' out of their asses, Inquirer copies and changes the info, hardware.fr adds something to it. :LOL:
 
Nebuchadnezzar said:
:!:

NV30 = You know
NV31 = Revamped NV28
NV34 = Cut-down NV30
NV35 = Revamped NV35

I don't think so. nVidia's internal codenames have always been very accurate at describing the internal architecture. That is, NV1x was based on the GeForce1, NV2x was based on the GeForce3. It only makes sense that all NV3x cards will be based on the GeForce FX (meaning all programming-side capabilities of the GeForce FX, if not more).

I still think xbit is a bunch of idiots. They seem to know how to do lots of technical benchmarks, but have no idea how to properly-interpret them. So, I'm pretty much just going to throw this out the window.

However, we did hear previously that the NV31 and NV34 should be available around April, with the NV31 being the performance part and the NV34 being the mainstream part.

The NV31, therefore, will likely be a cut-down version of the GeForce FX. Here are some possibilities (In order of descending "coolness"):

1. Lower clock speed coupled with SOI make for a much cooler chip in the 300MHz-400MHz range. Few to no core changes. Performance between the Radeon 9500 Pro and Radeon 9700 Pro with FSAA/aniso, with price similar to Radeon 9700 Pro (street prices). Will be much more profitable for nVidia than ATI's 9700 Pro at the time. While core overclocking may work well (Possibly better than GeForce FX, if similar cooling solution is used), cheaper board design will prevent overclocking the memory significantly.

2. Half-pipeline part. May just be GeForce FX with two pixel pipelines disabled. Should also have significantly lower clockspeed than GeForce FX (again, 300MHz-400MHz). Won't perform quite as well as the GeForce4 Ti 4600 with these specs until aniso/FSAA enabled. Performance should be around the Radeon 9500 to Radeon 9500 Pro. As a side note, if this is nVidia's performance part, what will the mainstream part be?

And as for the NV34, I think this may be even more exciting. With the codename NV34, it seems to indicate that this will be "just below an NV35." I'm really hoping that this means that we'll see in the NV34 some of the technologies that will be present in the NV35. In fact, I truly feel that it's the low-end where programming-side technologies should be pushed the most, whenever possible. After all, it's the low-end that determines the minimum requirements for future games. Only once the minimum requirements for games are increased can we possibly see the full use of advanced technologies.
 
I thought the NV34 was an integrated part?

Hard to tell if this is new information or just the old NVidia roadmap combined with their getting booth space at CeBIT.
 
If the NV31 is indeed a revamped NV28, then NVIDIA sure is in trouble. With ATI working on the RV350 (the value version of the R300, not the super version R350), and it being DX9, the vaste majority of the OEM's in Mobility are going to be choosing the RV350. Of course, since pricing does matter to OEM's, NVIDIA might have some luck on the low end but I think ATI will have the upper hand.

Just my two cents worth.
 
I think the availability of the faster 0.13 process is out of nVidia's control.

The safest bet is half-pipeline chip with normal DDR memory.
It cuts price at the chip level, the board level and the memory level.

Lets say they can produce a 550 MHz NV31 - that would have exactly the same theoretical numbers as the R9500Pro.

On the other hand this is something very similar that ATI is likely do with the RV350 only they approached from the different directions.

But the result should be the same:
0.13 process
4 pixel pipelines
1 TMU / pipe
128 bit DDR memory
probably in the 60-70 million transistor range
high clock range possibility

Of course this is just a speculation.

I'm curious if it will turn out to be a right guess.
 
It only makes sense that all NV3x cards will be based on the GeForce FX (meaning all programming-side capabilities of the GeForce FX, if not more).

I also "expect" any NV3x card to be based on CineFX architecture. However, if we continue with that assumption, that means that nVidia will still be doing something they never have done before. IIRC, nVidia has never used three separate chips from the same 'generation' to target mainstream (NV34 - $100), Performance (NV31 - $200) and enthusiast (NV30 - $300+) markets at the same time.

In the past, nVidia has always used two chips, with multiple speed grades / memory configs on each, to cover the three markets.

Using three chips would be a new direction for nVidia, so I would not "rule out" the possibility that nVidia is doing something "new" with their chip code names....possibly being NV31 and/or NV34 being DX8 based, with some features borrowed from NV30. Having three separate chips with similar feature capability in each market sounds like an expensive and risky way to go, especially if they are available at nearly the same time.

The NV31, therefore, will likely be a cut-down version of the GeForce FX...

Or, it could be a "built-up" version of the NV34.

The $200 price point is a risky proposition for all IHVs. There are three ways to approach it, and choosing the wrong one can get you into trouble:

1) Use the same chip as the enthusiast market, but cut down the board level product some way....Lower clocks, narrower bus, less expensive memory, or ATI's new approach of 'disabling pipelines'.

2) Use the same chip as the value market, but improve the board level product some way....Faster clocks, wider bus, more expensive memory.

3) Use a completely different chip.

As with most things, there are pros and cons with each approach:

Approach 1 will probably get the best product, but with the lowest profit margin. (Better for consumer, worse for IHV). Think Ti 4200.

Approach 2 is just the opposite...worst product, best profit margin. (Worst for consumer, best for IHV). Think GeForce4 MX 460.

IHVs would prefer approach 2, but competition might force the path of approach 1.

Approach 3 should lead to the most balanced product...but there's a much larger "up front" R&D effort involved in fabbing a separate chip, testing, driver support, etc. (Vs. minimal R&D effort to upgrade or downgrade a board level product.) You also run the risk of having "too many" products in too narrow a price range, particularly if the enthusiast product must be forced down in price due to competition.

I'm just not sure that I see room for three separate NV3x chips, all with similar levels of feature (API) support, and selling within $200-$300 of one another. Not sure nVidia's OEMs would appreciate that.

Having said all that, it looks to me like ATI will be essentially using approach 3 come the spring. I'm guessing RV-350 chip at value, R-300 chip at performance, R-350 at enthusiast. The only difference between this, and an "all DX9 NV3x" situation, is that the R-300 will not be a "new" chip when RV-350 and R-350 launch. That gives ATI quite a few more viable options with how they decide to fix their line-up in response to competition.
 
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