some square devs admitted that luminous engine was a pain in the ass to work with.
There is a reason why they switched to UE4. It made their work shine even more. There is no problem saying UE4 helped in the process. That does not discredit the artists
No dev who has worked on Luminous engine has ever said that though, in fact I have quotes where XV devs have said the exact opposite. Anyone who's ever said Luminous was difficult to work with were gamers on various forums making assumptions and being armchair analysts while using KH3 switching over to UE4 as their proof, but let's break down the whole engine switch, and it's not because Luminous was difficult to use. It wasn't even the KH3 dev team or director's decision to switch.
KH3 switched to UE4 some time in late 2013-early 2014 because it was a company-wide decision from the higher ups at SE to start co-developing Luminous engine with only 1 game in order to avoid the same development issues Crystal Tool had, as recommended by Julien Merceron.
https://www.dualshockers.com/former...s-using-it-only-for-final-fantasy-xv-for-now/
"former Square Enix Worldwide Technology Director Julien Merceron explained why Square Enix shifted from using Luminous Engine on several games to only Final Fantasy XV.
Merceron explained that it’s difficult to share an engine without first creating a game on it. Some companies do that, but he wouldn’t. When he creates an engine, a game also has to be developed with that engine. After the engine proves itself in said game, then the technology can be shared, as the developers can finally say that it works.
If the engine hasn’t proved its worth, there’s a constant risk of problems. In fact, with the Fox Engine, the team did not start working on Pro Evolution Soccer before finishing Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes. Besides limited prototyping and assessment, the decision to use Fox Engine in PES was taken after Ground Zeroes was completed, and the team was sure that the engine could deliver.
The same goes for Luminous. Merceron recommended to Square Enix to release Final Fantasy XV and then see what happens with that, before using Luminous Engine with other games."
As a reminder, KH3 had an even longer dev time than FFXV even after it switched over to UE4. FFXV rebooted from scratch in 2012 while borrowing VersusXIII concepts and gameplay prototypes were made in the ps3 Ebony engine (parts can be seen in e3 2013 reveal trailer). XV development then fully migrated over to Luminous in late 2013 and released 3 years later in 2016; that's a really tight and short dev time given to a team making their first AAA open world title alongside developing a new engine. KH3 had 4 years of dev time on UE4, and this is after they had made prototypes in UE3 as well as Luminous. And despite KH3 having a longer dev time in UE4 it also wasn't as technically demanding as XV considering it had linear levels, no open world, no dynamic time of day or weather, baked lighting and shadows, but yet it still also had performance issues and horrible frame pacing problems.
So why does VII-R look better than KH3 (another UE4 game) and is more consistent looking than XV, and performance (at least for this very linear demo) is generally more polished and better than both XV and KH3? Huge factors is the longer dev time (VII-R production already started in 2014 on UE4, ~6 years of dev time on UE4 vs. XV's 3 years on Luminous), that's a big time difference for artists to refine their work and for programmers to optimize code. The VII-R team also only has one platform to focus and optimize for at the time of release, essentially giving them the same benefit first party exclusives have. They'll have an extra year to develop ports, whereas XV needed to be optimized for multiple platforms at launch on an already tight schedule. Technically XV is doing entirely different things whereas VII-R is more linear and uses renderfarms to create pre-baked lightmaps, which in this gen is always to going to be easier to have consistent quality compared a game with more dynamic worlds and lighting. XV is also about to reach 4 years old at this point...
and it's not like XV is a slouch in graphics compared to VII-R anyway.
https://u.cubeupload.com/chinhvu/619FINALFANTASYVIIREMAK.png
https://u.cubeupload.com/chinhvu/ffxvs201906062302566.png
So you can't really say this certain game is technically good or bad due to the engine before factoring in a bunch of other stuff. UE4 isn't some magic easy-to-optimize general creation tool either given the notable performance problems and lack of polish many other AAA games on it had (Days Gone, Star Wars, KH3). Development time plays a massive role in this.
And again the KH3's switch to UE4 wasn't even the director or dev team's decision. KH3 co-director talks about the switch to UE4 in a post-mortem about how difficult switching over to UE4 was for them since they had never used it before. They hit a lot of brick walls, and it's only thanks to Epic support this game was even made.
https://www.usgamer.net/amp/kingdom...e-spoilers-gdc-2019?__twitter_impression=true
"We were first trying to test the game on Unreal Engine 3," Kingdom Hearts 3 co-director Tai Yasue tells me during this year's Game Developers Conference. "Then we switched to Luminous. Then we shifted to Unreal Engine 4, and that was a corporate decision. So it wasn't really me deciding that I wanted to use Unreal because of this and that; it was a decision from the top."
"It was a tough switch, Yasue says, because the team working on Kingdom Hearts 3 wasn't used to the new engine and had to learn it from scratch—even the differences between Unreal Engine 3, where Kingdom Hearts 3 was once tested, and Unreal Engine 4 were astounding. Luckily, with Unreal Engine 4 creator Epic Games available for help along the way, the switch eventually worked out very well. "We hit a lot of brick walls, but someone was there to help us out," says Yasue. "So I think that's a major thing, connecting to people. It's not just the technology and the engine."
"We were first trying to test the game on Unreal Engine 3," Kingdom Hearts 3 co-director Tai Yasue tells me during this year's Game Developers Conference. "Then we switched to Luminous. Then we shifted to Unreal Engine 4, and that was a corporate decision. So it wasn't really me deciding that I wanted to use Unreal because of this and that; it was a decision from the top."
"It was a tough switch, Yasue says, because the team working on Kingdom Hearts 3 wasn't used to the new engine and had to learn it from scratch—even the differences between Unreal Engine 3, where Kingdom Hearts 3 was once tested, and Unreal Engine 4 were astounding. Luckily, with Unreal Engine 4 creator Epic Games available for help along the way, the switch eventually worked out very well. "We hit a lot of brick walls, but someone was there to help us out," says Yasue. "So I think that's a major thing, connecting to people. It's not just the technology and the engine."
And you can read about Luminous design for ease of development here now that the engine is mature and they've completed a game on it. It's a complete 180 compared to the FFXIII post-mortem talk about Crystal Tools I linked to earlier.
https://www.luminous-productions.com/news/08/
―Apart from Luminous Productions, there are several companies that develop their own engines and tools. From your perspective as a developer, what do you think the unique strength of the Luminous Engine is that cannot be found elsewhere?
Aramaki: I would say its strength is that the design concept of this engine has always been to streamline the work of developers, so the learning costs for those who have never used the engine before are not that high and that enables everyone to work efficiently on our engine.
Additionally, the graphics part is designed so that the data from DCC tools can be easily brought over, not to mention that the engine’s level editor uses node-based scripting which makes it possible for us to implement game prototypes at early stages of development.
To sum it up, our engine provides an environment where we can create game samples without difficulty. In that sense, I believe it’s becoming an engine that is truly competitive and can rival the engines of other companies.
―The engine being easy to use and the game samples being easy to create is what leads to high-quality – do you think such an environment is another one of the unique characteristics of Luminous Productions?
Aramaki:When we think about how we can improve the quality of a game, we focus on how much work can be performed by the artists who can deliver the quality we need.
Taking the creation of character behavior for example - if the process involves an artist who first creates the motion data that then gets implemented by a programmer and so on and so forth, we often end up making a compromise somewhere along the way or the character behavior turns into something that the artist did not intend it to be.
In order to avoid such situations, we at Luminous Productions are aiming to create an environment in which the person who is responsible for creating the data follows through with it until the final output. Even right now, our studio has an environment where the artist can create everything on their own all the way to when the game is playable on a gamepad. An environment where such talented artists can experiment with different things in order to achieve quality – that’s certainly a characteristic of Luminous Productions.