Fewer PS3s this year than previously claimed.

[Bobbler]

Am I behind the curve on this? I haven't seen nearly the "pre-order frenzy" for PS3 in North America that I recall from the xb360 launch. At least yet. I'm assuming this is not coincidental, nor a lack of enthusiasm for PS3 amongst the hardcore faithful.

There aren't any places that are even allowing preorders yet in the states (from what I've seen/heard)... sort of hard to have a pre-order frenzy when you can't actually preorder.

Most places seem to want to avoid what happened last year, it seems.

 

[Geo]

Preorders haven't been available on the whole. I know there have been discussions with Sony and suppliers about allocation. It's like they're holding off allowing them until some sense of numbers are available. I'm not sure what you mean by the XB360 troubles though. Preorders going unfulfilled? I don't know whether that was the stores or MS's fault.

You guys follow this a whole lot closer than I do. I tend to catch the "conventional wisdom" and the "agreed upon history/urban legend after the fact." My sense re XB360 in NA was that a great many retailers took pre-orders with the promise or at least implication they'd be able to fulfill them either on launch day or very shortly thereafter. . . and then couldn't. What I'm remembering are "took hundreds of pre-orders per store, got allocation of 5 per week/per store" kind of stories. Those stores no doubt would blame MS, and MS would blame the stores. My point is, if the manufacturer lets the retailers know their allocations *before* they start taking masses of pre-orders, then there isn't any doubt about who to blame for a communication fubar --the store, not the manufacturer.

 

[expletive]

If production started on 9/1 (which at this point is still in doubt) i just cant see how they can go from 0 to 1 million units per month starting in the first month.

Also, I see the angle of Hirai potentially creating false supply shortages to whip the early adopters into a frenzy but i also dont think that Sony would want to tip their hand to Nintendo or MS regarding a potential product shortage.

You guys follow this a whole lot closer than I do. I tend to catch the "conventional wisdom" and the "agreed upon history/urban legend after the fact." My sense re XB360 in NA was that a great many retailers took pre-orders with the promise or at least implication they'd be able to fulfill them either on launch day or very shortly thereafter. . . and then couldn't. What I'm remembering are "took hundreds of pre-orders per store, got allocation of 5 per week/per store" kind of stories. Those stores no doubt would blame MS, and MS would blame the stores. My point is, if the manufacturer lets the retailers know their allocations *before* they start taking masses of pre-orders, then there isn't any doubt about who to blame for a communication fubar --the store, not the manufacturer.

I think in the end it was an unforseen component shortage so while the PR game at the retail level pointed the finger at MS, i think the reality is that it was no one's 'fault'. MS fully intended to have a lot more units available and boutique stores fully intended to sell them all via preorder. The resulting scene was unfortunate but you know what they say about the road to hell...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What I'm remembering are "took hundreds of pre-orders per store, got allocation of 5 per week/per store" kind of stories. Those stores no doubt would blame MS, and MS would blame the stores.

That was indeed the case, with preorders going unfulfilled which must have annoyed people no end, especially when there were stores selling units to walk-in purchases. I don't know who's fault it was though. You're going to want some boxes to sell on launch day to show some big queues, so the whole lot can't go preorders, but how do you limit the preorders stores are willing to take?

 

[Geo]

That was indeed the case, with preorders going unfulfilled which must have annoyed people no end, especially when there were stores selling units to walk-in purchases. I don't know who's fault it was though. You're going to want some boxes to sell on launch day to show some big queues, so the whole lot can't go preorders, but how do you limit the preorders stores are willing to take?

With a little communication jujitsu. You do what you can to prevent them from taking pre-orders at all until the allocations are set and communicated, then you give a series of interviews and PRs when the allocations are set that they've been set and communicated to the retailers (you don't have to say what they are), so all y'all go ahead and line up with your local retailers with whatever pre-order programs they offer.

The retailers aren't stupid, they'll see the point --which is if the manufacturer hits their allocations, then it will be the individual retailers with their ass hanging out in the breeze if they don't manage well, and communicate effectively, with their allocation.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

With a little communication jujitsu....

The retailers aren't stupid, they'll see the point --which is if the manufacturer hits their allocations, then it will be the individual retailers with their ass hanging out in the breeze if they don't manage well, and communicate effectively, with their allocation.

So it's your position that the pre-order shortage for the 360 is ultimately the responsibility of MS, regardless of any other factors, because MS didn't do a good enough job with the 'communication jujitsu' which would have explained to the masses that every store only has X amount of pre-order units allocated to it, and if they are selling more than that.. take it up with the store, and not MS?

How is this plan of yours supposed to be practically implemented for the PS3?

Sony launches an add compaign that completely informs the consumer that every store has a limited number of pre-order allocations.

Whats step two? The individual stores reveal their pre-order allocations to those wanting to pre-order?

Who makes the decision that EB Games on 23rd street has 15 preorders, but should also expect an additional 10 units to be sold on launch day?

What happens when EB Games sells 25 preorders, with only 15 'guaranteed' from Sony?

What happens when the consumer that purchases Preorder #20, fully aware of Sony's marketing campaign re: preorders, and also fully aware of being #20 out of 15 guaranteed Pre-orders but a promised 25 units, doesn't get his console?

What happens when the consumer walks into EB Games, fully aware of Sony's marketing campaign re: preorders, and also fully aware that the store on 23rd street has 15 preorders guaranteed, but it supposed to get a total of 25 units.. and there aren't any units available because the store on 23rd street decided to sell all 25 units as preorders and not have any in stock?

As far as I'm concerned, these are all the exact same issues that plagued the 360 launch, and they result from a combination of supply/demand, the individual choices made by the indepenent retailers, and the lack of empathy from the consumer toward the retailer trying to juggle the need to sell VS the need to have some actual product.

And I don't see how any thing has changed. Except that there might have been a mandate from Sony to not allow the retailers to offer pre-orders as early as they did with the 360... but that's just guessing.

 

[Geo]

I think MS could have done a better job, if not in the end result, then at least in shifting such blame/angst as did appear (and it appeared to be considerable to me) from their own shoulders. Any individual element in the chain can only do so much, but I'm puzzled why it would be controversial to suggest that MS/Sony would have a legitimate interest in not being the ones that all the fingers are pointing at --which certainly seemed to me to be the case that MS took the whipping in the community's mind with XB360 on pre-orders not being fulfilled in a timely manner. We can argue over who deserved what percentage of the blame in reality rather than perception (which I would find a huge bore, but feel free). . .but are you really suggesting that MS had no responsibility there?

Answer the question re whether we aren't seeing NA pre-orders yet for PS3 is Sony discouraging them pre determining actual allocation, and then we'd be able to say if they see it that way too, or it's just coincidence at this point. Maybe in the end they will do no better, and the retailers will do no better. There *are* going to be some dissapointed PS3 fans this christmas, no matter what. What I'm talking about is Sony doing what they can to communicate and minimize that in advance, particularly those who who'd feel a pre-order was some sort of entitlement to early/immediate receipt of a system, and even more particularly for who gets blamed by the community if pre-orders are not fulfilled in a timely manner.

I can't see them being willing to give actual allocation numbers per retailer in public, tho I think it would be awesome if they did. Nevertheless, making it clear that those numbers were provided to the retailers before much pre-ordering happened would definitely help Sony skip out of the line of fire a bit if things go awry at the retailer end on pre-orders, and put a little more pressure on the retailers to get it right, because they'd understand that it would be harder to point the finger back at Sony credibly.

 

[NavNucST3]

I think MS could have done a better job, if not in the end result, then at least in shifting such blame/angst as did appear (and it appeared to be considerable to me) from their own shoulders. Any individual element in the chain can only do so much, but I'm puzzled why it would be controversial to suggest that MS/Sony would have a legitimate interest in not being the ones that all the fingers are pointing at --which certainly seemed to me to be the case that MS took the whipping in the community's mind with XB360 on pre-orders not being fulfilled in a timely manner. We can argue over who deserved what percentage of the blame in reality rather than perception (which I would find a huge bore, but feel free). . .but are you really suggesting that MS had no responsibility there?

Answer the question re whether we aren't seeing NA pre-orders yet for PS3 is Sony discouraging them pre determining actual allocation, and then we'd be able to say if they see it that way too, or it's just coincidence at this point. Maybe in the end they will do no better, and the retailers will do no better. There *are* going to be some dissapointed PS3 fans this christmas, no matter what. What I'm talking about is Sony doing what they can to communicate and minimize that in advance, particularly those who who'd feel a pre-order was some sort of entitlement to early/immediate receipt of a system, and even more particularly for who gets blamed by the community if pre-orders are not fulfilled in a timely manner.

I can't see them being willing to give actual allocation numbers per retailer in public, tho I think it would be awesome if they did. Nevertheless, making it clear that those numbers were provided to the retailers before much pre-ordering happened would definitely help Sony skip out of the line of fire a bit if things go awry at the retailer end on pre-orders, and put a little more pressure on the retailers to get it right, because they'd understand that it would be harder to point the finger back at Sony credibly.

I would think that everyone learned from the "360 debacle", which is why the stores themselves are not doing the pre-ordering. I think the retailers took most of the blame from the consumers and then the retailers pointed the finger at MS. The fact is though that the user base of the PS is much larger than that of the Xbox, so even with these safeguards, people are going to be pissed. I think you will see more people try to pre-order, just to not go through the situation that happened last fall, but I think overall it will be the same mayhem. Personally, I don''t understand why more people don't pre-order items, especially IF it guarantees you an item you know you want at a specified date and time...

EDIT: hmmm, geo has gone from "mostly" to "moderately", be afraid, be VERY afraid!

 

[Geo]

Heh. I was going to spell it MODerately Harmless, but it just didn't look right, since I wasn't going for a '70s five (?) inch heels with the goldfish in them kind of deal.

Edit: [geo looks to his left, sees the new toy, and returns to his previous Title and Location]