Equate what you expect from the revolution with a graphics card

[V3]

Wouldn't a 64-bit bus be a lot cheaper though in terms of PCB cost? I say keep the eDRAM because most of the bandwidth is used for framebuffer math which eDRAM is efficient at.

64 bit bus will be cheaper obviously. 128 bit with 20+ GB/ should be plenty for framebuffer stuff at 640x480. Pixel shader will take care of those anyway. This aren't primitive stuff like GS or Flipper.

 

[V3]

Even using 4X AA and HDR , also they already used a 128bit bus, in GC so I dont think, they will go backward.

AFAIK No, only Xbox has 128 bit bus. GC uses 64 bit bus @ 162 MHz for 2.6 GB/s of bandwidth.

 

[pc999]

I should have put "" in backward, anyway from PS2 to PS3 thers is hugh jump in BW, and if Rev will uses DX9 tech like: normal/paralax/shadow/...map and more poligons, higher rez in textures etc... it will use a lot of BW (even if there is edram for the buffer), so I dont see them going with a 64bit bus cuting from the unless they use very fast memory wich might be pricier ( or considering MS/S choises meybe not).

Anyone if anyone knows what is better/cheaper please correct me.

 

[pc999]

AFAIK No, only Xbox has 128 bit bus. GC uses 64 bit bus @ 162 MHz for 2.6 GB/s of bandwidth.

Are you sure
I thought both have 128bit bus .

 

[pc999]

Also keep in mind that a scaled down PPU would be pretty small too. A scaled down PPU would have 62 million transistors and only be about 44mm^2@90nm. I think the ideal CPU for Broadway would be a single core G5 + a scaled down PPU coprocessor. So you're looking at about 120 million transistors total (G5+PPU) and a die of about 110mm^2.

It would be very interesting see how that would compete with XB360/PS3, anyway if it is a 970FX I think it is bit slow, compared to modern (desktop, consoles) CPUs, even if only for AI, audio, and few more (but of curse a custum part should be much better).

 

[PC-Engine]

It would be very interesting see how that would compete with XB360/PS3, anyway if it is a 970FX I think it is bit slow, compared to modern (desktop, consoles) CPUs, even if only for AI, audio, and few more (but of curse a custum part should be much better).

It's really the only core IBM has that's backwards compatible with Gekko. Unless they're working on a new secret PPC core that nobody is aware of. Nintendo could go with a dual core G5+PPU but it would be too big for a single chip. Of course they could keep the PPU separate so who knows.

 

[see colon]

Are you sure
I thought both have 128bit bus .

http://www.nintendo.com/techspecgcn

External bus : 1.3GB/second peak bandwidth (32-bit address space, 64-bit data bus 162 MHz clock)

 

[pc999]

Thanks for the info See Colon

It's really the only core IBM has that's backwards compatible with Gekko. Unless they're working on a new secret PPC core that nobody is aware of. Nintendo could go with a dual core G5+PPU but it would be too big for a single chip. Of course they could keep the PPU separate so who knows.

That stat to seems a bit costly and hot too, anyway whatever they present us I am sure that in the minimum it will be a very costum part, so whatching to these number (at least, so closely) may be mysleading.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's really the only core IBM has that's backwards compatible with Gekko. Unless they're working on a new secret PPC core that nobody is aware of. Nintendo could go with a dual core G5+PPU but it would be too big for a single chip. Of course they could keep the PPU separate so who knows.

Or not even have a PPU... Is there any particular reason to believe Nintendo are wanting to include one?

 

[PC-Engine]

Or not even have a PPU... Is there any particular reason to believe Nintendo are wanting to include one?

I'm just using PPU as a generic term for a vector coprocessor.

 

[see colon]

Or not even have a PPU... Is there any particular reason to believe Nintendo are wanting to include one?

perhaps ati's recent revelation that a GPU could be used for physics work is a sneak peak at what they have in store for revolution. there were rumors a while ago that revolution would have multimonitor support, perhaps it'll have 2 GPU, but not equal in power. actualy, this could open up a hole in my "it's not a PC part" theory. say they had a modified flipper (smaller package, higher clockrate, a few new features) and a more modern GPU say with the x1k feature set. the new flipper would give you backwards compatability for GC games, you could use it for a secondary display (for stuff like the DS does, maps ect), or use it to assist physics calculations, or even AI. it would have it's own memory (~3MB on-die with flipper, but they could add some) and they could add some programability into the pipeline. each deleoper could use it for whatever they wanted.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm dubious of dual output for Revolution, but the idea of a stand-in extra GPU/PPU versatile processor is a nice one. Something like a couple of SPE's that can aid in Vertex rendering or physics, and be used either for CPU or GPU work, plus provide BC if needed. Coupled with a Xenos like US architecture which can shift to pure PS, you'd have a very flexible system.

 

[Urian]

PowerPC Broadway:
-ISA PPC 32 and 64 bits.
-1 Integer Unit, 3 VMX-N Units
-5 Instructions per cycle
-In-Order Execution
-Unified L2 Cache with L1 Data Cache (512KB)
-64KB L1 Instruction Cache
-The VMX-N Units are 4-Way SIMD Units that supports the VMX instructions and the Gekko SIMD Instructions, thanks to the last instruccions can run FP Scalar Instructions.
-The CPU is mainly a PPE with 3 modified VMX and without the Scalar FPU Unit.
-ClockSpeed 3.5Ghz
-Power Consumption (around the 30W)
-Teorical Floating Point Power: 84 GFLOPS using VMX Instructions and 42GFLOPS using Gekko Instructions.

ATI Hollywood
-Based on the ATI X1300 Pro
-600Mhz
-2 Vertex Shaders (12 GFLOPS)
-4 Pixel Shaders (38,4 GFLOPS)
-This version is without the AVIVO but Implements something better
-Hollywood is because the GPU has a few 4-Way Vector Units that can be used for effects like HDR, MSAA and a few others.
-Uses propietary set of instructions and registers (the same of the Flipper)

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

Urian are you saying broadway has a theoretical total of 126GFLOPs or are you saying either 42GFLOps or 84GFLOps?

By the way, where'd you get this latest theory from?

 

[Ooh-videogames]

Urian are you saying broadway has a theoretical total of 126GFLOPs or are you saying either 42GFLOps or 84GFLOps?

By the way, where'd you get this latest theory from?

Probably from himself. Its a good theory though.