Epic Sues Apple and Google due to Fortnite getting pulled [2020-08-13, 2021-05-03]
- Thread starter eastmen
- Start date
ltcommander.data
Regular
Given Epic's #FreeFortnite PR campaign, I wonder if it's enough that Apple just hunkers down and stays confident in their legal team or if they'll have to respond with their own counter-PR campaign to try to win/win-back hearts and minds?
In any case, given the rapid timing of adding the direct payment option, the lawsuit, and the PR campaign complete with pre-rendered video this was obviously planned by Epic, which eliminates the innocent misunderstanding argument that is often the case in developer/App Store disputes.
Ike Turner
Veteran
Apple doesn't give two fucks about Sweeney megalomaniac & opportunistic PR stunts .If anybody thinks that this is about anything other than wanting to make more $$ then they don't know much about Sweeney who has been pulling those kind of stunts privately (I've witnessed it first hand a few years ago) and now publicly for more that 15 years now. Epic is just riding the whole Antitrust wave for its own gains and nothing more. Google has just delisted Fortnite from the PlayStore..wonder what pre-render CG propaganda boogaloo they are going to release against Google..
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Difference between android and ios is that in android alternate stores are possible. In ios only appstore will work for regular users. i.e. fortnite for android is still available via epic's launcher that can be used from browser. For ios fortnite is not available via any means. Being thrown out of google play doesn't mean you cannot sell and install apps for android. Being thrown out of apple's store on the other hand,...
To me it looks like alternate store fronts is the battle epic is waging.
In alternate world what would microsoft be to apple if windows was locked down to ms store only(no more steam, gog,...)
It's fine to hate epic/sweeney but getting alternate store to ios would be beneficial to customers. Btw. I believe xcloud and stadia are also not possible on ios. Epic is not alone in this fight.
To me it looks like alternate store fronts is the battle epic is waging.
In alternate world what would microsoft be to apple if windows was locked down to ms store only(no more steam, gog,...)
It's fine to hate epic/sweeney but getting alternate store to ios would be beneficial to customers. Btw. I believe xcloud and stadia are also not possible on ios. Epic is not alone in this fight.
So what did sweeney/epic do to attract all this hate?
For me there is 2 separate issues. One is closed platform from apple and at least having adult discussion should it stay closed or should it be forced open. Another kind of unrelated discussion is sweeney/epic sucks.
I believe apple has history of not allowing/retroactively banning apps that compete with apple. Any app that is allowed into apple ecosystem has to give cut of any sales to apple(apple payment processing). Google android on the other hand allows third party market places which makes android much more open platform. The cut to apple via payment processing is likely reason why stadia, xcloud etc. will not come to ios. Or apple will make special deals for google/ms but that would in general be bad as that would segregate developers to different classes.
If apple wins it would pave way for microsoft in legal sense to banning gog, steam etc. Hopefully microsoft wouldn't do that but they would be allowed to follow what apple does if apple emerges victorius. This doesn't sound very good to me.
For me there is 2 separate issues. One is closed platform from apple and at least having adult discussion should it stay closed or should it be forced open. Another kind of unrelated discussion is sweeney/epic sucks.
I believe apple has history of not allowing/retroactively banning apps that compete with apple. Any app that is allowed into apple ecosystem has to give cut of any sales to apple(apple payment processing). Google android on the other hand allows third party market places which makes android much more open platform. The cut to apple via payment processing is likely reason why stadia, xcloud etc. will not come to ios. Or apple will make special deals for google/ms but that would in general be bad as that would segregate developers to different classes.
If apple wins it would pave way for microsoft in legal sense to banning gog, steam etc. Hopefully microsoft wouldn't do that but they would be allowed to follow what apple does if apple emerges victorius. This doesn't sound very good to me.
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Under duress? Was someone holding a gun to their heads? How is it duress to pay a high entry fee? If some old retread band like the Eagles want $300 a ticket to get good seats, you pay it or you don't. Or a nice beachside resort charges you $500 a night for a room with an ocean view. Again, where's the duress? It's not like Apple or Google told them that if they didn't pay 30%, they'd let some other competitor get in the App. Store and take away the potential Fortnite business.
They made money from console and PC platforms for years. A good amount of money.
Price of entry was pretty much spelled out when they submitted to the App. Store. They knew the terms.
And they can't exactly complain that they're starving. Making a ton of money, but want to make a ton more.
I know Apple is a convenient target because it's so rich. It isn't enough that iOS made Epic probably billions or would if they continued with the current terms.
But it's not good enough.
They made money from console and PC platforms for years. A good amount of money.
Price of entry was pretty much spelled out when they submitted to the App. Store. They knew the terms.
And they can't exactly complain that they're starving. Making a ton of money, but want to make a ton more.
I know Apple is a convenient target because it's so rich. It isn't enough that iOS made Epic probably billions or would if they continued with the current terms.
But it's not good enough.
There's no banning here until Epic broke the terms to which it agreed when it first submitted Fortnite.
If they roll back those changes, I'm sure Apple would put them right back in.
Sweeney decided he didn't want to pay Apple or Google's price all of a sudden after couple of years of raking in mountains of cash. He wanted even more so he tried to change the terms of the deal unilaterally.
Where is it written that a games developer has some inherent, inalienable right to someone else's platform? If Tim Cook decided he didn't like Sweeney's face and decided to bar Epic from the App. Store, what law is he breaking exactly?
But that's not what's happening here. Epic first agreed to Apple and Google's terms, made a ton of money under those terms for a couple of years, then decided they no longer wanted to comply with those terms and got thrown out as a result.
You are missing my argument. My argument is that for android and windows one can create a 3rdparty store like steam or epic store and install apps via it. For apple ecosystem only apple store is possible. Epic got properly kicked out of play store but if players know how to use epic's store they can still buy and install fortnite to android/windows/... This is not possible for IOS
The point epic is trying to make is that apple system should be opened to allow 3rdparty stores. Of course people would somehow have to find those alternate stores and it might still be preferrable to be in apple's app store(for visibility, ease of access, trust). Apple should compete on merit, not on being allowed to have closed system. Closed system was fine when apple was a small player, same as certain things were fine for microsoft until they weren't.
I don't think he has any legal arguments on his side. Or at least that's what a lawyer would tell him unless they're ambulance chasers who only see dollar signs and Apple's deep pockets.
The timing of this comes at a time when Big Tech companies are under political pressure. So he tries to make it about a big, rich, heartless company crushing the little guy, hope that political sentiment forces Apple to break the terms of the App Store.
The little guy is worth 9-figures and has had billions in sales since Fortnite has been on the App. Store.
Why?
iPhone is not some monopoly. It's got a minority market share, though its customers tend to be higher-income and spend more.
Under what laws would you force Apple to change it's business model? Because Apple is stinking rich so it has to change to a less-profitable business model, so others can get rich?
That's interesting, socialism for corporations.
I'm not the biggest free enterprise guy there is, but okay, if we want to write such laws, have at it.
Just be clear, under existing laws and the existing terms of the deal, Apple is not in the wrong.
But change the laws, probably changes the nature of the country and the world, to decide to limit the profits of a non-monopoly business. They are saying you can be too rich. Are they going to take away Bezos' mansions and jets and Ballmer's NBA team and Ellison's yachts too?
Income and wealth inequality is a problem in the world so lets go whole hog and change that!
Oh BTW, Sweeney himself must be worth at least 9-figures, if he's not a billionaire himself. So let's take his shit away too!