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Epic Sues Apple and Google due to Fortnite getting pulled [2020-08-13, 2021-05-03]
- Thread starter eastmen
- Start date
arandomguy
Veteran
I don't think it's really an emotional response. The monetary implications of loosening advantages in how you can leverage your platform is very big.
I don't think looking at it this way for these types of things in general really makes sense.
Epic is both a developer and effectively the newer entrant to the market trying to break in. As such their interest in this matter effectively aligns with developers and consumers (well unless other factors are involved).
What's your opinion of Sweeny?
Is he benign, altruistic?
Because he's making it out like it's some huge victory for developers, but did he sue for all developers or just himself?
I don't think looking at it this way for these types of things in general really makes sense.
Epic is both a developer and effectively the newer entrant to the market trying to break in. As such their interest in this matter effectively aligns with developers and consumers (well unless other factors are involved).
Vergecast raised an interesting point. Spotify and others have quickly submitted apps which will steer users to purchase IAP and subscriptions through their own site, avoiding paying the Apple commission.
But what will they offer users to get them to enter their credit card and billing details on their sites versus just purchasing through the App Store, which already has their billing information?
If Spotify or other streaming services were charging $10 a month for streaming services through the App Store, will the offer the subscription for $7, $8 or $9, at least temporarily, to get users to create accounts with billing information with them?
Most users would jump at the chance to get a 20% or more discount on their subscriptions. But will they for 10% discount?
There is a hassle factor and risk of your billing information being hacked, the more places you store this information.
So what will be the calculus most users make to create accounts with Spotify or another streaming service in addition to the App Store?
For a lot of these users, they probably already have accounts with Spotify, certainly Netflix and Amazon Prime, probably Disney and Hulu as well. I subscribed to Disney Hulu on one of those Black Friday deals, so Apple isn't getting any of the $2.99 I pay a month to Disney/Hulu. Certainly reasonable, Disney promoted this special deal through other channels than the App Store and I subscribed directly and I didn't even download the Disney + app until I created my account.
But lesser known services may not have formal financial relationships with their iOS users, who may mostly be purchasing IAP or subscriptions through the App Store.
That's what these services selling subscriptions may have to do, offer special promotions, which is part of the acquisition cost for each new subscriber, rather than depend on discovery by users through the high traffic in the App Store.
In this case, Disney essentially discounted $8 a month for a year off their normal price. Though this is the ad tier, so I suspect they make money at $2.99 a month as they would at $10.99 a month.
But it's certainly a lot more than the 30% of the 10.99 they'd pay to Apple if I subscribed through the app.
I don't know if these services have offered that kind of promotion through their apps, the kind of impulse buying that a lot of people do around BF because there are steep discounts from nominal prices.
But what will they offer users to get them to enter their credit card and billing details on their sites versus just purchasing through the App Store, which already has their billing information?
If Spotify or other streaming services were charging $10 a month for streaming services through the App Store, will the offer the subscription for $7, $8 or $9, at least temporarily, to get users to create accounts with billing information with them?
Most users would jump at the chance to get a 20% or more discount on their subscriptions. But will they for 10% discount?
There is a hassle factor and risk of your billing information being hacked, the more places you store this information.
So what will be the calculus most users make to create accounts with Spotify or another streaming service in addition to the App Store?
For a lot of these users, they probably already have accounts with Spotify, certainly Netflix and Amazon Prime, probably Disney and Hulu as well. I subscribed to Disney Hulu on one of those Black Friday deals, so Apple isn't getting any of the $2.99 I pay a month to Disney/Hulu. Certainly reasonable, Disney promoted this special deal through other channels than the App Store and I subscribed directly and I didn't even download the Disney + app until I created my account.
But lesser known services may not have formal financial relationships with their iOS users, who may mostly be purchasing IAP or subscriptions through the App Store.
That's what these services selling subscriptions may have to do, offer special promotions, which is part of the acquisition cost for each new subscriber, rather than depend on discovery by users through the high traffic in the App Store.
In this case, Disney essentially discounted $8 a month for a year off their normal price. Though this is the ad tier, so I suspect they make money at $2.99 a month as they would at $10.99 a month.
But it's certainly a lot more than the 30% of the 10.99 they'd pay to Apple if I subscribed through the app.
I don't know if these services have offered that kind of promotion through their apps, the kind of impulse buying that a lot of people do around BF because there are steep discounts from nominal prices.
I don't think it's really an emotional response. The monetary implications of loosening advantages in how you can leverage your platform is very big.
The advantage of staying on the app store are huge, they didn't need to charge 27% ... that was just blatantly taking the piss. The judge refused to even consider it as anything else and jumped straight to contempt.
They fucked up, only for the benefit of the ego of some execs.
How much would the fair charge be?
Developers, assuming this ruling becomes the norm, would get the best of both worlds, easier discovery in a very high traffic marketplace, which most developers couldn't generate through their own web sites, but now they don't have to pay anything for being in the marketplace?
It's like stores getting to go into the most popular malls, which bring a ton of foot traffic, but they don't have to pay rent to be in the mall.
If Apple wasn't the most valuable company by market cap, there probably wouldn't have been this legal fight. Developers were making plenty of money despite the 30% Apple Tax, in particular a company like Epic Games.
Developers, assuming this ruling becomes the norm, would get the best of both worlds, easier discovery in a very high traffic marketplace, which most developers couldn't generate through their own web sites, but now they don't have to pay anything for being in the marketplace?
It's like stores getting to go into the most popular malls, which bring a ton of foot traffic, but they don't have to pay rent to be in the mall.
If Apple wasn't the most valuable company by market cap, there probably wouldn't have been this legal fight. Developers were making plenty of money despite the 30% Apple Tax, in particular a company like Epic Games.
Vergecast raised an interesting point. Spotify and others have quickly submitted apps which will steer users to purchase IAP and subscriptions through their own site, avoiding paying the Apple commission.
The big boys already decided that paying Apple 30% wasn't worth it, Apple wasn't getting the commission any way.
How much would the fair charge be?
Fair is besides the point, they lost. They needed something least costly, completely losing the faith of the judge of acting in good faith is not going to be cheap.
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