Elon Musk *spawn*

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/tes...ker-over-hostile-work-environment-racism.html

It is not spaceX so not directly comparable to blue origin, but there is just no way that a person who tweets the way Elon does has a less toxic workplace than average. I'm sure eventually we will hear more about this from other of the companies as well once the wheels start to come off like the solar venture. I realize he did not start that, but he didn't start Tesla either.

Zed I still respectfully disagree with you. I know plenty of people who worked with venture cap companies and the list of people who started a lot of companies is pretty big. They have to have the right timing and the right response. Most of his fortune is from Tesla and there is nothing special there at all. It was just a matter of timing and hype from the press. PayPal was fine and provided a payment processor when one was needed to fill a new niche.
 
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/tes...ker-over-hostile-work-environment-racism.html

It is not spaceX so not directly comparable to blue origin, but there is just no way that a person who tweets the way Elon does has a less toxic workplace than average. I'm sure eventually we will hear more about this from other of the companies as well once the wheels start to come off like the solar venture. I realize he did not start that, but he didn't start Tesla either.

Zed I still respectfully disagree with you. I know plenty of people who worked with venture cap companies and the list of people who started a lot of companies is pretty big. They have to have the right timing and the right response. Most of his fortune is from Tesla and there is nothing special there at all. It was just a matter of timing and hype from the press. PayPal was fine and provided a payment processor when one was needed to fill a new niche.
He also came from a wealthy family.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/elon-musk-birthday-ceo-tesla-b1874017.html

Regardless, it is understandable to expect someone's efforts to give him some extra wealth, but it is no where normal or close to what anyone can possibly expect to produce in billions by themselves.
Him and Bezos have in wealth around 9 times the GDP of a small country each.

Being a billionaire is an inconceivable amount that it is hard for most people to comprehend what an astronomical amount that is.

They are being overcompensated astronomically because thats how the system is set up. It is not objectively set up on a person's real production.

If you have extra cash, you have the extra cash to invest simply on investments for extra returns and set up mega businesses. If you are from a wealthy family you already have the conditions to build businesses, have huge networks and have favorable treatment by other businesses.

On the other hand if you are poor you are more likely to lose money.
Example:
if you are poor you cant buy expesnive durable clothing. You will buy the cheap one which will deteriorate and have to buy another one soon. In the long term you are spending more than what you would have spent if you were reach enough to buy the expensive one. The rich though is saving money in the long run.
Same for housing. You are poor, you are rejected for a housing loan for $800 installments per month, but you are left with rent which is capital collected by the landlord who already has capital. A rent that could even be higher than the installment.
 
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It is not spaceX so not directly comparable to blue origin, but there is just no way that a person who tweets the way Elon does has a less toxic workplace than average

Musk's hostile tweets are generally very them and us. On the flip side his feed has plenty of praise and credit for his teams. Neither means anything much more than the shitty memes he engages with. Inferring workplace toxicity from Musk's Twitter is a stretch.

We certainly have accounts of Musk going off on one, being great and inspirational to work with and a high CEO rating across 71000 employees.

His management team are either very good at keeping him out of company culture or he's generally doing a good job at it. As far as we can know, which is limited.

They are being overcompensated astronomically because thats how the system is set up. It is not objectively set up on a person's real production.

What can we plebs do about the powers of capitalism and vast inequality is probably its own rambling thread isn't it?

Unless you have a particular idea about what Musk should do with his current shares or options when they mature?
 
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Musk's hostile tweets are generally very them and us. On the flip side his feed has plenty of praise and credit for his teams. Neither means anything much more than the shitty memes he engages with. Inferring workplace toxicity from Musk's Twitter is a stretch.

We certainly have accounts of Musk going off on one, being great and inspiration to work with and a high CEO rating across 71000 employees.

His management team are either very good at keeping him out of company culture or he's generally doing a good job at it. As far as we can know, which is limited.

My argument in this case is that when the big boss, that people like according to you treats random people poorly (pedo guy etc..) it sets a precedent for treating people poorly. That is all. Other people might say things in private, but doing that makes the behavior visible to far fewer people.

People are now saying Blue Origin was a "toxic" workplace, whereas before it was just an underperforming one. Now that they demanded their employees actually come back to work to collect a paycheck and are pushing to accomplish something it is suddenly toxic. Just seems a little convenient how these things play out and I would not be surprised to hear the same things when the solar or boring company decide to fold. Even when Tesla underperforms for years and years due to its sky high valuation that is nonsensical. Similar to people who say that starlink is going to be worth an almost infinite amount of money. I am a huge supporter of starlink and think it can fundamentally change the world by bringing internet to more people, but the money will be limited to a certain size of a pie still. It will be able to grow quickly and then more slowly once bandwidth is saturated. I'm not trying to diminish it, but it also isn't as if satellite internet is a new idea. It was a synergy with spaceX and another market like space launch that is currently underserved and controlled by oligopoly to have inflated prices. There is a lot of money to be made by a new market entrant if they can pay the toll to enter and the established power cannot crush them.



What can we plebs do about the powers of capitalism and vast inequality is probably its own rambling thread isn't it?

Unless you have a particular idea about what Musk should do with his current shares or options when they mature?
Yes of course you are correct and it is a conversation that I believe is hampered by hero worship of the rich. If more people realized how much luck was involved they might be a little happier with the idea of figuring out a way to tax wealth more appropriately.

Of course I can come up with ideas about how other people should spend their money :p The prior is probably a bit RPSC though.
 
So this lawsuit dates from 5 years ago. Silicon valley in effect. Move fast and break, er, not being racist.

Payout is nuts but will probably be appealed.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...-former-worker-subjected-to-racist-workplace/

From the article, it's $6.9 million in compensatory and $130 million punitive. Ostensibly the latter part is more about correcting Tesla's behavior, although it's true such numbers tend to be cut down significantly if not mostly wiped out on appeals.
Perhaps not coincidentally, corporations don't necessarily change their behavior from damage awards they can reduce to a rounding error in their budgets.

People are now saying Blue Origin was a "toxic" workplace, whereas before it was just an underperforming one. Now that they demanded their employees actually come back to work to collect a paycheck and are pushing to accomplish something it is suddenly toxic.
From the following, it seems like there were systemic issues in terms of leadership and goals going back years.
https://arstechnica.com/science/202...f-blue-origin-leaders-trying-to-catch-spacex/

The essay that claimed the culture was toxic was written by someone who was removed from the company in 2019, so at least that claimant doesn't have the motivation about needing to come back to work.
Other claims, and the reactions by the company do correlate with something long-term and serious.
https://arstechnica.com/science/202...cry-safety-and-sexist-culture-at-the-company/

The company denounced the author of the essay, and said she was fired for breaking export laws, which is possibly non-standard in several ways.
One, it's typically not a responsibility of someone working in employee communications be be directing or managing IP of that kind, and because companies normally don't dive into that level of detail on firings. It's not a professional look, and making it that personal wouldn't be inconsistent with a toxic culture.

Further, the article points out that the CEO of BO is extremely poorly rated on Glassdoor relative to other CEOs in the industry or elsewhere, and his tenure matches up with the period in question.
The first article about how BO was given ideas on how to turn its fortunes around years ago, and we now know it mostly didn't listen, which seems like dissenting opinion isn't handled well.

While SpaceX does get results, I do recall in the past descriptions of quite a lot of burnout in Musk's companies. Execs and managers also had anecdotes of churn and high pressure from Musk.
For SpaceX, it helps that people feel their work is going into something that makes it to space and is accomplishing a vision.
I'm not sure if there isn't some long-term cost in terms of burning out potential innovations and institutional knowledge, even if the results presently are good.
Perhaps because there's a different CEO for SpaceX, among other things, it's been able to handle the mercurial Musk.
Tesla's been an example of more clear own-goals that made things significantly harder for itself due to Musk's decisions and behaviors.

Just seems a little convenient how these things play out and I would not be surprised to hear the same things when the solar or boring company decide to fold.
The solar company effectively folded prior to being acquired by Tesla. There were stories about its mismanagement and handling of its solar tiles project. More pertinent to the thread, the acquisition was by many accounts a bailout of Musk's family members and himself using Tesla's resources--which in many companies would have been stopped by a board that wasn't composed heavily of the CEO's family and friends. The ROI for Tesla on that buy is decidedly poor.
 
like?
Tesla is least known compared to a lot of other inventors.
I didnt know him, but I knew Edison, Graham Bell etc
Without the help of the internet I would have never known. And after I learned about him and mentioned him to others they also had no idea.
And he also did not patent many of his inventions so people would use them freely.
Mate Tesla has been very famous since forever, I knew about him as a kid, surely you've seen pictures of tesla coils in books when you were a kid? he was very famous during his life not like a lot of ppl that die unknown and only later find fame.
There has been a resurgence of interest in him in recent decades though, I assume linked to the company 'tesla' and the film/s. Hes always been a big topic in the conspiracy world "Suppressed tesla tech" BTW which is all bunk
junk article filled with distortions of the truth I think all 7 points arent true, eg the first tesla's biggest invention 'AC power' he didnt even invent, AC power had been around for decades before tesla 'invented' it, like edison with the lightbulb he improved it.
FWIW Like edison, tesla had guys working under him for who he took the credit

Im not knocking tesla at all as he was a true genius (definitely in the top 100 inventors of all time) , its just that the myth built up recently distorts the reality
 
Mate Tesla has been very famous since forever, I knew about him as a kid, surely you've seen pictures of tesla coils in books when you were a kid? he was very famous during his life not like a lot of ppl that die unknown and only later find fame.
There has been a resurgence of interest in him in recent decades though, I assume linked to the company 'tesla' and the film/s. Hes always been a big topic in the conspiracy world "Suppressed tesla tech" BTW which is all bunk
junk article filled with distortions of the truth I think all 7 points arent true, eg the first tesla's biggest invention 'AC power' he didnt even invent, AC power had been around for decades before tesla 'invented' it, like edison with the lightbulb he improved it.
FWIW Like edison, tesla had guys working under him for who he took the credit

Im not knocking tesla at all as he was a true genius (definitely in the top 100 inventors of all time) , its just that the myth built up recently distorts the reality
Tesla was famous, not the kind of famous that gets as much attention as he deserves. Depending where you are living you might have heard a lot, barely heard anything or at all.
Most people might have heard of the Tesla coil, but not a complete story of his contributions and dont know that the widely used AC in our houses was because of his work.
Edison is presented as the man who brought electricity and the light bulb in our lives.
Tesla solved the problems of AC and made it functional and useful. During the AC vs DC wars, Edison have used unethical means to convince the masses AC was dangerous. He paid the media for a large scale propaganda and even electrocuted an Elephant to death in public claiming the dangers of AC.
Edison is sugar coated and portrayed as the great inventor, but was a ruthless businessman at the same time. This isnt taught in schools and Tesla doesnt get as much coverage based on my observation.
 
Edison is sugar coated and portrayed as the great inventor, but was a ruthless businessman at the same time. This isnt taught in schools and Tesla doesnt get as much coverage based on my observation.

yeah its really weird that Edison was being told in schools as a brilliant inventor instead of a brilliant businessman. His business practices were brilliant and some of them (e.g. paying mass media to spread info benefitting you) is still used by business nowadays!

His way of branding himself as the brilliant inventor was also amazing. The grunts that did the grunts works and maybe even actually invent the thing did not get proper credits, as edison took them all under edison company. But it was a really great trick. Making edison name bigger and bigger. Making inventions easier to market and easier to grab investors.

tesla on the other hand is way more into inventing than business and marketing.
 
You mean benefiting his business regardless if it was at the expense or benefit of the rest :p

Yep! The "modern" world seems to reward more to people with sociophatic tendencies, especially on higher ladders (ceo, etc).

Although maybe on lower ladders there are also tons of people with sociophatic tendencies...

Dang this makes me remember my experience working in a government owned haha
 
Is this new? Or did I read the wrong history books as a kid?

according to Bikini Bottom's "The True History" history book, our ancestors works together in groups, taking care of each other. At least until they found rocks...

anyway, the "modern" was in quotes because I meant to refer to the times that's not too ancient. So... like the time after when humans were no longer nomads, hunting and gathering, etc.
 
anyway, the "modern" was in quotes because I meant to refer to the times that's not too ancient. So... like the time after when humans were no longer nomads, hunting and gathering, etc.

Fair enough. So you mean pre-history (good, hippie and helpy) versus the whole of recorded history (big man smash everyone)?

So, one question. About that evidence...

Wait, second question, are you saying that "working together in groups, taking care of each other" is dead these days? I'm not sure that's entirely true.
 
Fair enough. So you mean pre-history (good, hippie and helpy) versus the whole of recorded history (big man smash everyone)?

So, one question. About that evidence...

Wait, second question, are you saying that "working together in groups, taking care of each other" is dead these days? I'm not sure that's entirely true.
well there are efforts to make it sound like a dysfunctional utopia because those who amass wealth and power dont like the idea
 
Fair enough. So you mean pre-history (good, hippie and helpy) versus the whole of recorded history (big man smash everyone)?

So, one question. About that evidence...

Wait, second question, are you saying that "working together in groups, taking care of each other" is dead these days? I'm not sure that's entirely true.

I was not trying to say that those are dead nowadays. But sociopathic behavior are quite rewarded nowadays.

Even better for the sociopaths that also really good at working together and taking care of each other. They will have a nice clout of people that afraid to go against them, and able to throw people under the bus to keep them getting good promotions.
 
I was not trying to say that those are dead nowadays. But sociopathic behavior are quite rewarded nowadays.

Even better for the sociopaths that also really good at working together and taking care of each other. They will have a nice clout of people that afraid to go against them, and able to throw people under the bus to keep them getting good promotions.

I think I know what you're saying about the here and now. I just don't agree that the sociopathic behaviour is in any way new, nor that the rewards have changed drastically. Nor that the political power of the true sociopaths has really changed.
 
yeah its really weird that Edison was being told in schools as a brilliant inventor instead of a brilliant businessman. His business practices were brilliant and some of them (e.g. paying mass media to spread info benefitting you) is still used by business nowadays!

His way of branding himself as the brilliant inventor was also amazing. The grunts that did the grunts works and maybe even actually invent the thing did not get proper credits, as edison took them all under edison company. But it was a really great trick. Making edison name bigger and bigger. Making inventions easier to market and easier to grab investors.

tesla on the other hand is way more into inventing than business and marketing.

Am I the only one to notice the irony that Edison here is being described the same way as Musk is, who now owns a company called Tesla.
 
I think I know what you're saying about the here and now. I just don't agree that the sociopathic behaviour is in any way new, nor that the rewards have changed drastically. Nor that the political power of the true sociopaths has really changed.
Sociopathic behavior is not new, but I think it has never been glorified and normalized as much as it is now as a sign of virtue and success. It is the media and it has infested also business and economic studies that teach such behaviours as normal and beneficial.
Now people think they have to mimic such behaviors to be successfull and wealthy. So not only we have natural sociopaths. We have people that try to be like them.
 
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