Effects of next gen consoles on you to buy a new HDTV?

[Davros]

What, there are still people that use a 720p TV set? Seriously?

Yes!!!

PS3 was the reason why I moved to HD tough - and one of the reasons I didn't get one for lunch.

Wasnt it tasty enough

 

[Cyan]

Yes, I still play at 720p in my 1600x1050 native HDTV, for several reasons, mostly because I have no option.

I received confirmation today that my order is ready, so I guess the Philips TV I purchased is going to be delivered soon. I can't wait!

On a different note, -kinda off topic- NVidia have announced the G-Sync chip which is going to be included in gaming monitors. It will be placed in the rear of monitors, and a variety of display companies are on board, a list which includes ASUS, Philips, BenQ and ViewSonic.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nvidia-introduces-g-sync-technology-154018434.html

It doesn't have much to do with TVs but computer monitors, but I thought it was interesting.

 

[baten]

Yes, I still play at 720p in my 1600x1050 native HDTV, for several reasons, mostly because I have no option.

I received confirmation today that my order is ready, so I guess the Philips TV I purchased is going to be delivered soon. I can't wait!

On a different note, -kinda off topic- NVidia have announced the G-Sync chip which is going to be included in gaming monitors. It will be placed in the rear of monitors, and a variety of display companies are on board, a list which includes ASUS, Philips, BenQ and ViewSonic.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nvidia-introduces-g-sync-technology-154018434.html

It doesn't have much to do with TVs but computer monitors, but I thought it was interesting.

It's not clear to me if the chip will work with all graphic cards or just with Nvidia. If the chip works with all cards I can see it going into TV also, and consoles benefiting from it...

 

[Arwin]

Still leaning towards the 655, but I'm worried that I'll miss 3D. I found out that Sony now have a passive 3D set as well, which I hadn't seen before and which is interesting and gets pretty good reviews. But it's still 919 euro, which is still a bit too high for me. The 655 is 560 euro or so, which is more like it.

The Vita's OLED screen really made me aware of how much better low latency feels, so I am definitely making that a big priority for gaming now, and that 655 seems to be at 1 60fps frame of latency (16.8ms or so), which is great for a TV.

 

[Cyan]

Arwin, in regards to Sony TVs I came across the Sony Bravia KDL42W807A. It is a 42" HDTV with 3D and Smart TV support, not to mention MotionFlow XR at 400Hz. It costs 799€ where I live -I found that price in two different stores- and you could probably find a better offer somewhere.

This is the TV:

http://tiendas.mediamarkt.es/p/tv-led-42-sony-kdl42w807a-smart-tv-wifi-3d-400hz-1192196

http://www.richersounds.com/product/tv---all/sony/bravia-kdl42w807a/sony-kdl42w807asu

http://www.sony.co.uk/product/tv-107-42-lcd/kdl-42w807a

http://www.theplasmacentre.com/soun...tml?cpgn=110&gclid=CP_-se7ToroCFXCWtAodRHAAJg

Sony have a few budget TVs but most of their televisions are in the 1.200€-10000€ range, and they even have one priced at 25000€. ( http://store.sony.com/xbr-4k-ultra-hd-tvs/cat-27-catid-XBR-4K-Ultra-HD-TVs )

This is another nice Sony 3D Full HD TV set I found at John Lewis UK. Great reviews... Excellent so far.

http://www.johnlewis.com/sony-bravi...p-3d-smart-tv-42-nfc-with-freeview-hd/p454379

Another advantage of these TVs is that they are passive 3D so my Philips glasses would work with them, for instance. :smile:

There are more 3D models from Sony here:

http://www.sony.co.uk/hub/lcd-television/range/3d-tv

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Still leaning towards the 655, but I'm worried that I'll miss 3D. I found out that Sony now have a passive 3D set as well, which I hadn't seen before and which is interesting and gets pretty good reviews. But it's still 919 euro, which is still a bit too high for me. The 655 is 560 euro or so, which is more like it.

We did have this conversation though...

Good tip on that KDL-653 (655 in my case). I could replace my current TV with one of about the same size for just 400 Euro, that's very doable. Of course I'll be tempted to get a slightly larger one, or one with 3D, but we'll see ... this seems pretty good as it is!

42" seems to be the sweet spot with regards to value at the moment. I've had screen sizes ranging from 22" to 100" and these days 42" and 50" feel almost similar to me. I was pretty close to buying the 42" model, but then I stumbled upon this new 50" 3D model W685 and it was discounted to 895€ vs 699€ for the 42" 2D model and I got this instead. Now the cheapest I can see for my TV in Finland is 989€, which would have made it a tough choice. I can change the distance from my TV quite freely so basically anything 40" or over would work for me just fine.

The prices you mentioned, are they with 42" non 3D vs 50" 3D, or have you found the 50" non 3D for 560€!?

 

[Davros]

It's not clear to me if the chip will work with all graphic cards or just with Nvidia.

Nvidia only

 

[Rurouni]

I don't know exactly to be honest, until I test it. Obviously the TV supports Active 3D because the 3D Max technology is active, but I thought it also supported passive 3D because of the fact that it has a 2D to 3D converter, and reading your post makes me feel like I have probably made a noobish mistake. Darn....

I might be still on time to cancel the pre-order of the passive 3D glasses, since I pre-ordered them like two hours ago, because they were publicised as excellent glasses to play two player games split screen. Sigh.

This is the TV I am talking about -not so cheap for its size but I kiiiiinda loved it-.

http://www.pigiaunerasi.lt/kataloga...6-philips32pfl4508h32quot81cmledtv3dfull.html

Philips name for passive 3D is Easy 3D. Technically, you can make a TV that have both active and passive 3D, but I don't think it it has been done. For active, you just need a high refresh rate panel (which is expensive), for passive you just need to have different polarization for every pixel row (which is probably cheaper). If there is such a TV, panel wise, it could display video from 4 different source at the same time!

For your TV, I believe it's active 3D only.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

In that 3D combo design, you'd need glasses that are both polarised and obscured. You'd have even less light than shutter glasses, and combine the negative artefacts of ghosting/cross talk with the lower resolution of passive 3D.

I think we can see why no-one's tried it.

 

[Cyan]

Philips name for passive 3D is Easy 3D. Technically, you can make a TV that have both active and passive 3D, but I don't think it it has been done. For active, you just need a high refresh rate panel (which is expensive), for passive you just need to have different polarization for every pixel row (which is probably cheaper). If there is such a TV, panel wise, it could display video from 4 different source at the same time!

For your TV, I believe it's active 3D only.

Best answer on the subject, thanks for clarifying that up. That was a completely decent explanation on how both types of 3D work.

Also Shifty's explanation works for me too, I can quite understand what he means. I don't think such a TV is going to exist and if so it will be pretty expensive if they want great results, but the glasses could be also a limiting factor too -the main limiting factor, in fact.

On another note, this video shows how split screen works with 3D glasses.

This next video features a guy playing Motorstorm Pacific Rift on the PS3 using 3D glasses, clearly showing what each player sees. :smile:

p.s. I can't quite understand why the right lens shows a different image compared to the left lens of the glasses. I thought this would happen individually using a pair of glasses, with both lenses of the same glasses showing the same portion of the screen for one player and the other side of the screen for the other. I can't say til I try the glasses myself -I purchased the TV and the glasses separately, 2 pairs active 3D glasses and 2 pairs of passive 3D glasses, 'cos the TV doesn't include them-.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

p.s. I can't quite understand why the right lens shows a different image compared to the left lens of the glasses.

It's actually just a simple trick with the glasses. 3D requires a left and right image, naturally. So the glasses have different left and right glass which filters out each eye. For split screen, you have have special glasses, one pair with 'left glass' in both eyes so both eyes see the left image, and the other pair with 'right glass'. The console delivers a 3D video feed alternating left and right eyes, and the viewers each see all left or all right depending on which specs they're wearing.

For active shutter glasses, you change the synchronisation so both eyes see either left or right image.

 

[Rurouni]

In that 3D combo design, you'd need glasses that are both polarised and obscured. You'd have even less light than shutter glasses, and combine the negative artefacts of ghosting/cross talk with the lower resolution of passive 3D.

I think we can see why no-one's tried it.

I think the reason that nobody tried it yet because they don't think it's necessary. Having both tech used only increase the cost without apparent benefit. The 3D wouldn't be better and 4 source at the same time would even add more to the cost of the TV for niche usage. It's cool to have (both tech) but definitely something that most people wouldn't pay for it. I do want to see someone try it just because they can. If Samsung and LG could make and sell curved display phones, then surely they can make this TV just for the bragging points

Realistically, applying both tech is easy enough as long as it's only planned for using either active or passive 3D and not my theoretical simultaneous active and passive.

 

[Cyan]

It's actually just a simple trick with the glasses. 3D requires a left and right image, naturally. So the glasses have different left and right glass which filters out each eye. For split screen, you have have special glasses, one pair with 'left glass' in both eyes so both eyes see the left image, and the other pair with 'right glass'. The console delivers a 3D video feed alternating left and right eyes, and the viewers each see all left or all right depending on which specs they're wearing.

For active shutter glasses, you change the synchronisation so both eyes see either left or right image.

Thanks for the explanation as usual Shifty. I learn a lot from you and I am very glad of that. This technology is kind of fascinating and I wonder how Sony or MS didn't create a console fully based upon it. I don't mean a la Nintendo 3DS, but a console with a Dual GPU.

They took major strides on that department, with the PS3 and Xbox 360 offering full stereoscopic 3D universal support for TVs back in 2011, but if I were Sony or MS or Nintendo, I would make 3D TV support mandatory so developers must follow suit.

I don't mind if they had to decrease the resolution slightly as long as the games are true 3D and not only 3D worlds in 2D planes like they are now.

Besides that, I insist that I wonder why the new PS4 or the Xbox One don't have dual GPUs for 3D --albeit maybe they don't need it?

Now that the world has a technology which allows people to see the true depth of things like in real life, it's a shame developers aren't forced to use it in their "3D" games. I know I can even adjust the 3D depth with 3D Max TVs and glasses, and things like you say about being able to see the ball better in FIFA for instance would make a world of difference to many people.

I think it will be a time when 3D support for TVs will become fully and naturally standard, but now the technology is still very *young*.

 

[Cyan]

I finally received the Active 3D glasses I purchased, the Philips PTA518 http://www.vergelijk.nl/3d_bril/philips/pta_518/ and I haven't opened the package but they are well packed and include an USB charging cable. Besides that, they are nicely designed, I gotta admit, especially if you take into account I've used glasses and contact lenses most of my life --since I was 3 years old.

They also sent me the TV today but I wasn't at home when the delivery guy arrived, so I have to wait til tomorrow or Wednesday.

On a different note, this guy recommends setting the resolution at 1080i to play 3D games, but I have a feeling he got it wrong. I am going to set the resolution at 1080p.

On a different note, James Cameron (the director of Avatar) has said that videogames are going to drive the future of 3D.

http://gamerant.com/james-cameron-video-games-future-3d-dyce-81190/

According to the filmmaker, the future of 3D will depend a great deal on the next few years of video game development.


“Videogames are going to help propel the autostereoscopic (glasses free) play because that’s going to be the entry level for most people,” said Cameron. “These single-viewing devices that are engaging the person to play these video games will drive a lot of investment in autostereoscopic displays for that very reason. That technology will trickle up to the larger 3D displays that will be used for home viewing and gaming.

“Videogames are going to be the drivers, but they haven’t done so today because the cycle creation has lagged behind…”The consumer electronics companies introduced these screens last year, so we’re a year into this and it takes 18 months to two years to author a high quality video game. So you’re going to see a stampede of video games and then that, in turn, is just going to catalyze more broad scale adoption in the home of these big 3D screens.”

Additionally, back in 2009, experts expected there would be 40 million homes with 3D TVs in 2014.

http://gamerant.com/40-million-homes-stereoscopic-3d-tvs-games-by-2014-mark-4967/

 

[Cyan]

Strangely enough, I have planned to use the 3D glasses and the 3D TV effects for the first time with Skyrim, but the game doesn't support 3D apparently because Todd Howard said that he is not a fan of halving the resolution in current consoles.

I thought this wasn't a problem with active 3D glasses... I mean, they don't require the image to be drawn twice, as far as I know. *scratching head*

Aside from that I heard a Skyrim 3D movie is on the works and it is going to be premiered October 31st, but I can't access their webpage.

 

[Cyan]

This is a very interesting take on the eternal question about buying a 3D TV or not.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Strangely enough, I have planned to use the 3D glasses and the 3D TV effects for the first time with Skyrim, but the game doesn't support 3D apparently because Todd Howard said that he is not a fan of halving the resolution in current consoles.

I thought this wasn't a problem with active 3D glasses... I mean, they don't require the image to be drawn twice, as far as I know. *scratching head*.

You have to draw the same view for each eye, every frame. That's twice as many frames of rendering, for which the fix is generally halving the resolution of each frame. The display device can support two full resolution images per frame unlike passive displays, but the hardware isn't really capable of rendering that. You really want PC for 3D. Games that are mostly designed for 2D on limited consoles can be driven in 3D on PC with better hardware.

 

[Davros]

I thought this wasn't a problem with active 3D glasses... I mean, they don't require the image to be drawn twice, as far as I know. *scratching head*

Active do need the image to be drawn twice, 1 full frame for each eye

edit: er as shifty explained

ps: your tv may be compatible with tridef if it is you can use it with your pc and play skyrim in 3d (works ok on the pc with some tweaks)

 

[Cyan]

You have to draw the same view for each eye, every frame. That's twice as many frames of rendering, for which the fix is generally halving the resolution of each frame. The display device can support two full resolution images per frame unlike passive displays, but the hardware isn't really capable of rendering that. You really want PC for 3D. Games that are mostly designed for 2D on limited consoles can be driven in 3D on PC with better hardware.

I get what you mean now. I hope it doesn't mean the framerate is halved too. It doesn't bother me at all after trying actual 3D on the TV though. I am not going to go back to 2D anymore if I can help it. More impressions later.

Active do need the image to be drawn twice, 1 full frame for each eye

edit: er as shifty explained

ps: your tv may be compatible with tridef if it is you can use it with your pc and play skyrim in 3d (works ok on the pc with some tweaks)

According to Shifty's math equation my laptop isn't going to make the cut. I purchased Skyrim for the PC on Steam a few months ago and I could test that. I don't know what Tridef is yet, but I suppose it is a mod.

The first game I played on the console to try the TV for the first time is Skyrim on the Xbox 360. But the game isn't 3D compatible and 2D to 3D conversion helps, but it's not the same as if the game was programmed with a 3D mode.

I received the TV today. The package was surprisingly large. In regards to the TV itself, it's almost as wide as my desktop study and it's the perfect size for me. I took the photo from where I usually play games, so you get the idea.

Sorry for the quality of the photos, but this is what happens when you take photos with an old mobile phone.

The Active 3D glasses. They are comfortable.

 

[Cyan]

My quick impressions on my new Philips 32PFL4508 TV. First of all I'd like to point out that I couldn't be happier after buying my first Philips TV ever after being a big fan of them when I was a kid since my father also loved them.

Setting it up. It was pretty easy but it also shows that TVs have taken huge strides in functionality and capabilities. It detected my Wifi network pretty easily, it downloaded the latest firmware, it has built in sounds to help you choose the sound style you prefer, the menus are very complete and easy to use, not to mention eye-catching.

I set the TV to Unscaled (which means 1:1 pixel ratio, so if you set the console at 480p you are going to see a small rectangle on the screen (640x480 pixels). I set it at the native resolution 1080p and it filled the screen.

The Xbox 360 picked up the TV well & the 3D featured appeared in the Xbox Dashboard -System pane-. After enabling 3D the console restarted.

Had I to mention a flaw I'd say that despite having cost more than 500€ the TV didn't include 3D movies nor 3D glasses, but I can't complain....

Image quality. The difference is huge compared to my old Samsung. It has richer colours, better defined blacks and whites and everything looks crisper.

I told my best friend that I found out now that the number in the Gamercard which shows the amount of years you have been a Gold member is hald golden-coloured and half white. I thought it was fully white before, so you get the idea.

Playing Skyrim I could perfectly discern I had never distinguished before, like how torchbugs, dragonflies and butterflies are. In fact I could even see their antennas, abdomen....

I think it's not only due to the size of the screen, but also to the improved contrast between different colours and the balance of blacks and whites.

I got goosebumps while playing Skyrim and watching the scenery while listening to its music.

Sound. The sound is not going to win a Grammy award nor it does sound like a great amplifier or a good 5.1 system, but it sounds good and it gets the job done. There are three settings you can choose from; Stereo, Incredible Surround and Incredible Surround 3D.

Aside from that there are the typical EQ styles ranging from Original to Music to Games to News to Movies, etc etc.

3D Glasses. The Philips PTA 518 glasses are very comfortable and light and they include a protective case and a charging USB cable. The only flaw, at least for me is that the charging cable is a tad short.

They can work 80 hours without being recharged, which is not bad.

3D TV. Now the real fun begins. I only have one game fully compatible with 3DTVs, and it had to be from Crytek. I am talking about Crysis 1.

You can adjust the intensity of the 3D effect in the Options menu. The game states especifically to set the TV to Side by Side 3D.

As I said, after trying 3D I am not going back. :smile2:As I told my best friend, the feeling is indescribable!

In fact it is like real life!! I mean... Everything has true depth. You can feel you are there, in the game.

I can't actually describe it with words down to the last detail no matter how much I try. You'd have to test it yourself.

The HUD of the game was floating in the air, outside of the TV, the game was halfway there.

Using gadgets like the binoculars was an spectacle, while looking at the sea and seeing the mountains in the background, the birds flying around in the distance...

Using the turret gun of a vehicle made you feel part of it. All I could say all the time was: Wow, Wow, Wow... rinse and repeat. :smile:

The TV seems to be a three-dimensional cardboard box instead of a flat screen. Think of a square cardboard box in front of you, without a cover. you can see it open and the bottom is back there. Something like that. It has depth, you know where is the bottom of the cardboard box. A-mazing. :smile:
The HUD seemed to be floating, just like this (the video starts playing the exact moment everything becomes 3D)

http://youtu.be/Jd3-eiid-Uw?t=2m37s

​

It didn't feel like the HUD was on the TV screen but there, at the palms of your hand, you could reach it with your hands if you wanted to.

Holding a weapon in Crysis felt like you are actually holding it.

Calculating distances was a lot easier.

Everything around you feels like real life.

Only flaw I found is that the glasses don't allow for the world to look as colourful but when you actually see the game in 2D again you don't feel like you aren't missing out and would rather prefer to go back to 3D.

There was some ghosting, -might be a flaw of Active 3D glasses, I don't know- which isn't annoying at all, but it was there, especially in the cross hair and when other characters appeared on screen. But as I said it's not annoying nor it is there all the time.

I hope more 100% of the games are 3D compatible in the future. It's kind of revolutionary, unique and special. It is going to be one of the main features to consider in a game in order to buy it, for me at least.