Educate Me: Plasma vs. LCD displays

[MfA]

For the record, CRTs and Plasmas use the same phosphors.

The chemistry is similar, although still evolving ... but even when you use the same phosphor the optimal coating won't be the same when using 10 KeV electrons or UV from a plasma discharge, nor it's longevity.

This is why plasmas have similar IR and burn-in issues to CRTs and why their persistence and color accuracy is so much better than LCD.

Stuff like charge buildup is almost completely irrelevant to CRTs (other than rocketing dust into your eyes) yet a major source of IR in plasmas ...

PS. now SED displays, those would have behaved pretty much like CRTs assuming the electron guns didn't suffer from wear.

 

[Tahir2]

If you watch a lot of movies, fast paced, lots of camera motion and dark scenes - Plasma all the way, but get a decent one. Best brand out there currently is Panasonic, followed by Samsung (IMHO.)

If you want a smaller screen, (42 inch and less), will mainly be viewing computer generated images and are energy conscious then it has to be an LCD LED (Edge lit.) - again though go for a half decent brand.

Even the best LCD LED TV's lose a ton of image resolution in recorded high motion images - from ~ 1080 lines to 300p.. nice! The better Plasma's are basically able to retain that detail much better - some with no loss at all.

 

[MfA]

Plasmas are not strobe like devices quite in the same way as CRTs ... the bitplanes are shown sequentially so if you smoothly pan a camera (or your eye) to centre a moving image on a plasma screen you are still going to lose effective resolution. Only with an intentionally monochrome image could plasma retain full resolution during movement.

 

[Tahir2]

We discuss motion handling in more detail in the picture quality sections but overall the motion handling on the P65VT50 was excellent and using the FPD Benchmark disc, the full 1080 lines of resolution were visible on the moving tests.

Review of Panasonic P65VT50

Funny thing is I cannot for the life of me find the motion resolution results for the higher end LCD LED TV's on AVForums.

 

[MfA]

Those test patterns were designed to make plasma look good They are locally monochrome (at the spots you use to determine the resolution).

 

[swaaye]

On the image retention topic, my Nook Color's IPS LCD reminds me of my plasma TV!

 

[Acert93]

Some nice info, thanks folks.

 

[Gubbi]

Those test patterns were designed to make plasma look good They are locally monochrome (at the spots you use to determine the resolution).

The tests I've seen are black patterns moving on a white background and white patterns moving on a black background. That's a best case scenario for LCDs, gray-to-gray performance is worse.

You also avoid false colours for LCDs while exposing uneven decay times for the various phosphors in PDPs.

Cheers

 

[Lightman]

Samsung Series 8000 improves black and contrast compared to older LCD TV's.
It also has some problems, first of it is price (over £2000 for 55'') and second is relative high input lag even in Game Mode. I mean 2 frames of lag is normally ok, but for FPS players it might be too much.

Other than that excellent TV with amazing image processing and really low power consumption!

 

[Acert93]

I've been using a 42" 1080p Panasonic Plasma as a primary computer monitor for years now (it replaced a 36" widescreen CRT). It's power-hungry, hot and heavy relative to LCD but as a display it's been phenomenal. It handles games, movies and PC productivity with equal proficiency and image retention, while occasionally present, is really not a major issue. And I am probably a worst-case scenario for usage that would lead to IR.

Having said this, the dynamics of the market pretty much dictate that you get a LCD if < 50", so unless you decide to go real big and hit up that 50" @ $599 (I'm assuming you saw this deal @ Costco) there really isn't much of a choice.

Yeah, that is a pretty nice deal.

 

[RudeCurve]

Hum, I've spent way too many hours comparing different TVs in my downtime when I sold TVs during college and that is the one thing I could never spot. I was looking for it and I have very good eyesight.

Probably if you gave me the right material I could spot it. I was just using normal stuff that 99% of people would watch 99% of the time.

Turn off the lights, move a white cursor on a black background around the screen fast, you'll see it....if you can't then you're blind.

Clueless.

Cheers

Just stating a fact...feel free to refute it with evidence to back it up.

 

[Billy Idol]

I have a Panasonic Plasma VT model with 3d and what else....I use it for PC, PS3, Xbox, movies and TV. I also play very long MP sessions, no problem with burn in. I bought the 3d top model, as it offered better, even faster reacting phosphor technology, optimal for motion. I don't see it, but one of my friends (he is the only one so far) sees the phosphor trails, but only when he fast flip his eyes from left to right. I recommend to test out the screen to see if this is an issue for you. The next TV will be again a Panasonic Plasma, as long as there is not a better new technology available.

I can highly recommend it for gamers and I can highly recommend it as an all-purpose screen.

 

[Grall]

Samsung Series 8000 improves black and contrast compared to older LCD TV's.

From what I've been told, Samsung 7000 and 8000 series have identical innards and LCD panels, with just differing bezel/stand designs.

It also has some problems, first of it is price (over £2000 for 55'')

Yeah, price was the reason I went with the 6000 series and not 7 or 8. Just too damn expensive. I paid around 8500SKR for my 6305 model I think, and a 7000 of equivalent size was around 15000SKR. Ok, so you can't replace the "brains" module in the 6000 series like is possible with the bigger versions, and you don't get "local" dimming...still not worth the price difference.

Also, the SPDIF output on my model is missing on the 7/8k series, so I'd have to buy a HDMI-compatible surround system for audio. That'd be an even greater expenditure. As much as I love gadgets, that's simply too much to justify.

Other than that excellent TV with amazing image processing and really low power consumption!

Yeah. Power consumption really has dropped fantastically. Even with the quite fabulous image processing TVs do these days it's amazingly low for such big panels.

 

[MfA]

I doubt you can see phosphor trails on a relatively recent CRT monitor (TVs have slower phosphor) or plasma TV ...

What your friend sees on the Plasma display is probably a form of judder, on a plasma display a single frame is always "flashed" multiple times because of the subfield display technique ... if your eye is moving smoothly the light from multiple subfields for a pixel does not strike your retina at the same spot. This is slightly related to the rainbow artifacts for colour wheel DLPs.

 

[Grall]

Subfield strobing should be at such a high frequency that the human eye cannot percieve it; like with a high quality CCFL low-energy lightbulb for example.

 

[homerdog]

Turn off the lights, move a white cursor on a black background around the screen fast, you'll see it....if you can't then you're blind.

That's crazy... and a little outside the scope of what I would use a television for.

 

[MfA]

Subfield strobing should be at such a high frequency that the human eye cannot percieve it; like with a high quality CCFL low-energy lightbulb for example.

Plasma is a bit weird, it doesn't really flash a subfield at 8+ different intensities for a given frame ... it charges (or not depending if the subfield is active at a pixel) a cell and then sends a train of sustain pulses to keep it going at constant intensity. It's really more like plain PWM than anything else.

This means that the most significant bitfields are displayed/held for relatively long times.

 

[Gubbi]

Turn off the lights, move a white cursor on a black background around the screen fast, you'll see it....if you can't then you're blind.

Pioneer PDPs gen 7 and prior had blue phosphor that decayed twice as slow as the others. You could see this in white to black transitions. Panasonic PDPs of the same era had the same problem with green phosphors. That was 7 years ago. Panasonic first cut decay time by two thirds, with the introduction of 3D models they again reduced decay time, which is why Panasonic's PDP has such low 3D crosstalk.

Just stating a fact...feel free to refute it with evidence to back it up.

No you didn't, you stated FUD.

Cheers

 

[Grearlacte]

LCD and Plasma TV looks the same based on its outward appearance.Plasma TV display is consist of cells and between each cell are glass panels.LCD panels on the other hand are consist of two layers of transparent materials. Plasma TV provides better contrast ratio and is more accurate in color. However, it is not as bright as LCD TV and that makes LCD tv better choice for viewing.

 

[Mize]

LCD and Plasma TV looks the same based on its outward appearance.Plasma TV display is consist of cells and between each cell are glass panels.LCD panels on the other hand are consist of two layers of transparent materials. Plasma TV provides better contrast ratio and is more accurate in color. However, it is not as bright as LCD TV and that makes LCD tv better choice for viewing.

LOL.
Plasma is akin to CRTs (both use excited phosphors) whereas LCD us a liquid crystal layer to preferentially block colors/pixels. Plasma has much better response time (fast motion can kill LCD picture quality), much better black levels, richer / deeper colors and infinitely better viewing angles. The only advantage of LCDs are: 1. lifetime expectancy (particularly at higher altitudes), 2. maximum brightness and lack of burn-in susceptibility.