DS-Nitro chipset is OLD + Next GameBoy was/is a portable GC?

[Megadrive1988]

The Next Game Boy

matt you seem down on the ds but what about the next game boy do you think that could compete with PSP?

Matt responds: Don't let my rants fool you. I'm not down on the DS. I'm just waiting to see its true potential realized. As for the next Game Boy, which I'll call Game Boy Evolution since this seems to be the popular title for it, I'm extremely optimistic.

Actually, based on things I've heard, the paths of the DS and GBE have intersected already. Sources claim that the idea for the next Game Boy took flight right about the same time GameCube launched. The device was merely supposed to be a portable GameCube. Nintendo was hoping to create a synergy between the two platforms. However, for whatever reason -- probably an inability to miniaturize the GameCube at a consumer-friendly price -- the Game Boy successor was abandoned. Instead, Nintendo opted to use an old piece of tech: a hardware dubbed Nitro that was originally developed to be an update to the Game Boy line during the PS1 era. At former NCL president Hiroshi Yamauchi's suggestion, the tech was enhanced with a second screen and later a touch-sensitive interface. Thus, the DS was born.

What's interesting is that work on Game Boy Evolution is allegedly further along than most of us would probably guess. And more intriguing still, sources claim that Nintendo is once again trying to make the machine a portable GameCube.

If that comes to fruition, I will likely be singing the praises of Game Boy Evolution from the very start. It would be an amazing accomplishment. The machine would have a potential library of 500 games from launch. Imagine being able to play Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Resident Evil 4, Wave Race, and Pikmin on the go. It's a Nintendo fan's dream come true.

http://cube.ign.com/mail

do you think Matt is right about this? I came to respect the things Matt had to say in 1999-2000 regarding Dolphin. he turned out to be pretty much on target. although nobody is perfect and everyone contradicts themselves from time to time. hmmmm.

I believe the DS chipset is indeed OLD. ~67 MHz ARM9 plus a poor 3D chipset with no filtering etc. I believe the touch screen and WiFi stuff is all new.

I also believe that the true sucessor to GBA was always a GCN- portable or a portable based on GCN-like technology much like PSP is somewhat based on PS2-like technology (not saying PSP is based on PS2 because its not really)....



thoughts?

 

[GwymWeepa]

I think he's dead on and it jibes with what I've read from someone with intimate knowledge of the DS at another board (he implied the DS was old tech, the apperance of the PSP spurred the addition of the additional screen and wireless features).

 

[Acert93]

A portable GCN would be really nice. I wonder if Nintendo waits 2 years if 640x480 LCD screens would be affordable enough to incorperate into a console? I guess power is always a concern... which kind of puts a damper on a GCN portable to begin with.

But if they targeted a 4-6hr battery time, have the complete GCN library behind it, a nice display, and had similar features as the PSP/DS, well, that would be pretty killer imo. It also would be good for developers who worked on GCN titles because they would have the exerpience and tools already.

And best thing about a portable GCN is we would finally have a use for the handle

 

[GwymWeepa]

I think he's dead on and it jibes with what I've read from someone with intimate knowledge of the DS at another board (he implied the DS was old tech, the apperance of the PSP spurred the addition of the additional screen and wireless features).

Oh woopsiedaisy...let me explain by dead-on...basically I expect the gamecube innards to be the same, meaning, in essense the gameboy evolved or what have you would essentially be a gamecube. But Nintendo wouldn't actually allow it to play gamecube games, otherwise they wouldn't be able to make you buy the same game twice (a ton of people would probably buy RE:4, Wind Waker, Metroid Prime again just to have it on a portable).

 

[one]

an old piece of tech: a hardware dubbed Nitro that was originally developed to be an update to the Game Boy line during the PS1 era. At former NCL president Hiroshi Yamauchi's suggestion, the tech was enhanced with a second screen and later a touch-sensitive interface.

How could they conceive it as a more powerful machine than the GBA, in the PS1 era? Even if there's was an upgrade called 'Nitro' before, it must be a totally different thing from today's Nitro/DS, so 'using old tech in DS' is total BS IMO.

Nonetheless, it partially confirms the rumor that Nintendo rushed to create DS as a product only to counter PSP as I argued here before.

 

[London Geezer]

It's a Nintendo fan's dream come true.

That's the problem. It needs to be a gamers' dream come true. Not just a Nintendo fan's dream come true.

But yeah, if it happens, i'll be the first to buy a portable GC, having missed on this generation's Nintendo games.

 

[Teasy]

Nonetheless, it partially confirms the rumor that Nintendo rushed to create DS as a product only to counter PSP as I argued here before.

Its bs yet it supports you're argument? That doesn't make sense.

As I said DS's release date might have been influenced by PSP, similar to how PSP's has been by DS. But that's about it.

 

[Fox5]

I don't think the DS is old.
No way would something released during the n64 era used an arm9, but the graphics portion could be based on the n64 graphics.(maybe DS was already in the works, but was rushed to completion when nintendo heard about PSP?)

BTW, why couldn't gamecube be miniturized? It was already pretty small and fairly low power, doesn't use much more power than the PSP as it is so just get the heat down to where it can be used without a heatsink.(and shrink the disk drive) Or why not a dreamcast level portable, arm9 and throw in an mbx(with t&l since I think the arm9 is a much weaker cpu than the sh-4)? I think the dreamcast does have a lower power consumption level than the PSP, and the hardware minus the case, drive, and power supply/convertor thing is already PDA sized.

And I doubt a GCN portable would play gamecube games. Nintendo has never had their handheld hardware be the same as their home hardware, but even if they did share hardware I don't think they would share media.

 

[sunscar]

To the Question of if or not Matt is correct about the DS being the NItro tech, he's right.

To the question of why couldn't the GC be miniaturized.... two fold. Price and the thing does dissapate quite a bit of heat... simple as that

Later

 

[Fox5]

To the Question of if or not Matt is correct about the DS being the NItro tech, he's right.

To the question of why couldn't the GC be miniaturized.... two fold. Price and the thing does dissapate quite a bit of heat... simple as that

Later

A process shrink down to 90nm wouldn't fix heat? Or would nintendo be unable to afford a 90nm shrink, at least not for a while after PSP releases?

 

[Evil_Cloud]

Look at PSP and Mac Mini, it can be done, certainly in the coming two years...

 

[jvd]

Look at PSP and Mac Mini, it can be done, certainly in the coming two years...

I'm sure at 65nm or 45 nm the gamecube could be made small enough and draw the power required for long battery life .

I don't want a system i can only play for 3 or 4 hours at a time , i want one that i can play 8+ hours on it

 

[PC-Engine]

If SONY/Toshiba can shrink the EE+GS into a single chip at 90nm then surely Nintendo/NEC can to. The question is how much power does the EE+GS@90nm consume compared to the PSP chipset?

 

[Fox5]

If SONY/Toshiba can shrink the EE+GS into a single chip at 90nm then surely Nintendo/NEC can to. The question is how much power does the EE+GS@90nm consume compared to the PSP chipset?

At 130nm the entire gamecube system only consumes a max of 46W, and that's for a launch gamecube, I believe newer gamecubes had lower max power consumption.(that or they found they could get away with a weaker power supply, the lowest I've heard of is in the mid 30s)

I believe PSP's peak is in the high 20s or low 30s.
It's probably gamecube's disk drive that consumes most of the power, if equipped with a cartridge slot it could possibly have a lower peak power consumption than the PSP, maybe much lower. The shrink to 90nm might not even help power consumption much, I think the cpu uses under 5W(based on g4 power consumption levels), and the rest of the system probably has low power consumption as well. I'd imagine flipper's power consumption is comparable to a geforce 2 mx, which only uses 4W of power. The rest of the stuff in the gamecube is probably low too. Not sure if the 90nm shrink would overcome the heat problem, but it probably would.(or at least enough that a very small passive heatsink could be used)

And it would be cheaper to produce than gamecube because of the smaller die size, but it would cost money to engineer the die shrink. Nintendo did it for the n64 and the ique though(or more likely paid someone to do it), plus it's something that could carry over to the home market...maybe gamecube's poor performance in the home market prevented a die shrink, if it was selling like the ps2 then they would quickly make back the money.

 

[Teasy]

To the Question of if or not Matt is correct about the DS being the NItro tech, he's right.

About what specifically though, just the 3D core? Because obviously there's no chance that a system designed during the PS1 era as a update to the original GB had a ARM9 in it.

BTW if you know a lot about DS then how about giving us the low down on its exact specs (seriously question, just in case you think I'm being flippant ).

 

[Megadrive1988]

I don't think the DS is old.
No way would something released during the n64 era used an arm9, but the graphics portion could be based on the n64 graphics.(maybe DS was already in the works, but was rushed to completion when nintendo heard about PSP?)

oh I think the core DS chipset could really be that old. I mean, Nintendo had this awesome portable in the design phase called 'Atlantis' in 1996-97 that featured an ARM processor that was ~160 MHz. thats much faster at least in clockspeed than DS' ARM9. the Atlantis CPU was reportedly a StrongARM110 and I don't know how that architecture compares to ARM9 but I'll bet the StrongARM110 at 160 MHZ outguns a 67 MHZ ARM9. the graphics chipset of DS is almost prehistoric by todays standards. no filtering? i'm not putting DS down I think its completely awesome with its touch screen.


edit: I realize what i am saying is not on the solidest of ground, i'm making some major assumptions and i admit i could well be wrong.

 

[Guden Oden]

At 130nm the entire gamecube system only consumes a max of 46W

I believe GC is 180nm tech, but I'm not betting my life on it.

I believe PSP's peak is in the high 20s or low 30s.

What are you NUTS??? It'd melt, burn up or melt and burn up with that kind of power dissipation trapped in a plastic case that size. Look at the battery for chrissakes, it's what, 1300mAh? No f'n way it draws anywhere near 20W, much less 30. It'd need a laptop battery to last a couple hours at that kind of power draw.

It's probably gamecube's disk drive that consumes most of the power

You're joking, right? Hell, why not decide it's the fan that draws the most power???

lots of complete nonsense

The rest of your post is 100% unfounded, uneducated assumptions and BS, sorry. This is all LOL stuff.

 

[jvd]

to give u an idea the gamecube battery that is about an inch think and the length and width of the gamecube base gives the system 1 hour of battery life.


So they would need to either decrease the power consumption 8 fold for an 8 hour battery or increase the battery power 8fold .

Considering that the battery would still be huge this isn't saying much

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Would a portable GC get anywhere though if a portable PS2 with enhanced media, web-browsing etc. has been out for two years? By the won't Sony have a CELL based portable console even?

I'm wondering if Nintendo have been resting on their laurels, skimping out on portable development, only to have Sony appear menacingly with another PlayStation fiend :?

 

[Almasy]

Putting my stance on DS actually being the next GB aside for a while, I´d say this is complete BS. Nintendo LOVES to rerelease their content, it sells well and produces huge revenue with very little actual development invested.

If Nintendo came up with a portable GCN, it would erase hundreds of millions in profit, Nintendo isn´t stupid enough to do that.

GBA2, if it´s actually real, will be just a tad bit better than PSP graphics wise and MAYBE use tiny discs as well, uncompatible with GCN discs, probably using a gimmick, IMO. This would be more than enough for Nintendo, just look at what they developed to combat PSP.