Dreamcast upgrade

E

Evil_Cloud

Veteran
Lazy8s said:
I'd more like to have seen where they would've gone with Dreamcast technically, had they made another game for it.
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It could have looked ace, especially with NEC's planned graphical expansion, obviously never released. I only know there was going to be a Dreamcast expansion, but does anyone know about it's specs and planned releasedate?
 
NEC planned an upgrade? I can't recall of such a thing. There was an upgrade for the Saturn in the works but not the Dreamcast. There was no need for it. At the time there was a general consensus that add-ons/upgrades don't completely work in the market. That's why the DVD add-on was cancelled.

Team Ninja is a very impressive development team these days. Seems like they want to go after the most powerful hardware and get the most out of it that they can. I'm sure Ninja Gaiden will be a graphical showcase when it is released, and I'll be getting my copy first thing. I'm not completely sure about the new DOA games as I'm still a little confused on them. Is there a timeframe for when they will be released? There are three of them in development right?
 
Evil_Cloud:
I only know there was going to be a Dreamcast expansion, but does anyone know about it's specs and planned releasedate?
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We know how far a DC goes with just an outfitting of T&L.

It's actually clearer now, after seeing Xbox Ninja Gaiden, what Team Ninja would've delivered on with a follow-up DC game. Ninja Gaiden started development on DC and continued for quite a while, and Itagaki was once asked back then how good it looked. He said the whole game had DOA2-level graphics, yet it was hard for people to imagine the kind of graphics possible in a limited fighting game being able to be used in a full-blown action-adventure title (many in the media had also once felt DOA2 used a dual board Naomi set-up when it was first shown on Naomi because of how good it looked... Itagaki had to clarify the issue but said the team took that notion as flattering.) But, like he said, his team could achieve DOA-quality graphics in the full environments of a Ninja Gaiden, as they've convincingly pulled off by making Xbox's Ninja Gaiden look like something straight out of DOA3.
 
jvd said:
Question is, why have a "demographic"? Why not just appeal to everyone, like PS2?
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first the ps2 actually has to apeal to everyone. Once that happens the other systems can follow suit.


I've never heard of a dreamcast upgrade. Anyone have info they can post ?
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"There was also the news that NEC and Videologic, the makers of the Dreamcast VDP, had completed a plug-in replacement for their well-respected PowerVR 2DC. The new chip was 100% compatible with the old one, but added so much 3D processing ability to the system that it was said to run rings around the most powerful 3D graphics processor available at that time - the highly praised nVidia GeForce 256. So much for the claims of sitting around and doing nothing as Sony tried to seize for its own the polygon-pushing prize. Sega had promised that the Dreamcast would be both expandable and upgradeable, and it looked as if they were keeping their word. Also, in a completely unrelated development but one that caused classic gamers to rejoice, Sega of Japan (in conjunction with NEC) announced they would be making over 300 G/MD and TG16/PCE "ROMs" available on their website for use on the Dreamcast under emulation. It was the first time that such a service had been offered by a OEM (original equipment vendor) on the Internet, and Nintendo was quick to follow suit by announcing plans for N64 emulation support of its older NES and Super NES titles. "

- Segabase -
 
No link for that evil cloud? Cause while the genesis/megadrive roms came about, and so did saturn games in japan(on pc), the tg16 I don't think did, and I never heard anything about nes and snes titles on n64...

Plus, from the way people already talk about the dreamcast, it already ran rings around the geforce 256. And are they talking sdr or ddr? Anyhow, I think the geforce 256 ddr was only a halfway step inbetween a voodoo 3/tnt 2 ultra and a geforce 2(the original ones), but many people would put the dreamcast on par with the geforce 2, which many people would put above a ps2.
 
Fox5 said:
No link for that evil cloud? Cause while the genesis/megadrive roms came about, and so did saturn games in japan(on pc), the tg16 I don't think did, and I never heard anything about nes and snes titles on n64...

Plus, from the way people already talk about the dreamcast, it already ran rings around the geforce 256. And are they talking sdr or ddr? Anyhow, I think the geforce 256 ddr was only a halfway step inbetween a voodoo 3/tnt 2 ultra and a geforce 2(the original ones), but many people would put the dreamcast on par with the geforce 2, which many people would put above a ps2.
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Not saying this would happen but the kyro which was the next one after the neon 250 or whatever it was called in the dc had the specs of a tnt 2 ultra and sometimes out performed the geforce 2 ultra. That would have been a great upgrade .. To bad .
 
Evil_Cloud said:
"There was also the news that NEC and Videologic, the makers of the Dreamcast VDP, had completed a plug-in replacement for their well-respected PowerVR 2DC....
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That's news to me!
...The new chip was 100% compatible with the old one, but added so much 3D processing ability to the system that it was said to run rings around the most powerful 3D graphics processor available at that time - the highly praised nVidia GeForce 256. !
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I think I know what's happened here. I bet whoever you're quoting has got confused with the functionality of Elan. At reset, Elan "looked" to the CPU (SH4) as if it was CLX (i.e. PVR2DC) until it was put into T&L mode, after which it would drive the dual CLXs. That way old applications would run directly on the new arcade HW.

Anyway, you couldn't do a plug-in replacement on DC as the rendering chips are soldered to the board. A manufacturer wouldn't use sockets either - e.g. CLX was a BGA package and sockets for those cost a couple of grand!
 
Anyway, you couldn't do a plug-in replacement on DC as the rendering chips are soldered to the board. A manufacturer wouldn't use sockets either - e.g. CLX was a BGA package and sockets for those cost a couple of grand!
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Wow!!! That is alot of money Mister F . Is that why we aren't seeing any new pc chips from powervr. You guys need a loan from me :LOL: haha just playing

That is expensive . Thanks for clearing up about a dreamcast upgrade.
 
...

Dreamcast had no upgrade, it had only its replacement, Dreamcast2, to be launched in 2002. This one is for certain because Yuji Naka confirmed in an interview that he pushed for DC2 launch instead of pulling out of hardware biz in the last days of DC.
 
jvd said:
Fox5 said:
No link for that evil cloud? Cause while the genesis/megadrive roms came about, and so did saturn games in japan(on pc), the tg16 I don't think did, and I never heard anything about nes and snes titles on n64...

Plus, from the way people already talk about the dreamcast, it already ran rings around the geforce 256. And are they talking sdr or ddr? Anyhow, I think the geforce 256 ddr was only a halfway step inbetween a voodoo 3/tnt 2 ultra and a geforce 2(the original ones), but many people would put the dreamcast on par with the geforce 2, which many people would put above a ps2.
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Not saying this would happen but the kyro which was the next one after the neon 250 or whatever it was called in the dc had the specs of a tnt 2 ultra and sometimes out performed the geforce 2 ultra. That would have been a great upgrade .. To bad .
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Just for some clarification, it was the Neon 250 that was the direct counterpart to the DC, (although I believe it was slightly less powerful), and had performance levels somewhere around that of a TNT2 Ultra, (if only this thing had come out on PC on time).

The original Kyro came out about a year later and performed anywhere from around the level of a GF DDR on a fast CPU (at that time around 1 Ghz), to less than a GF2MX on a slower one. It was generally thought to be a main competitor to the GF2MX. The Kyro 2 came out the summer in between the GF3 and the Radeon 8500, and on a fast CPU generally performed around the level of a GF2 Ti, so inbetween a GF2 and GF2 Ultra. I think they finally ended up releasing a Kyro 2 Xtreme or something like that that bumped up the clock another 20 mhz or so, but was far too late for anyone to care, really.

The original Kyro, however, much less the Neon 250 didn't outperform the GF2 in anything except synthetic tests and maybe Serious Sam or something to that effect. Just thought I'd chime in on that.
 
So much inaccurate informtation in there. There was never a Dreamcast upgrade. I will confirm that for you right now.
 
The original Kyro came out about a year later and performed anywhere from around the level of a GF DDR on a fast CPU (at that time around 1 Ghz), to less than a GF2MX on a slower one. It was generally thought to be a main competitor to the GF2MX. The Kyro 2 came out the summer in between the GF3 and the Radeon 8500, and on a fast CPU generally performed around the level of a GF2 Ti, so inbetween a GF2 and GF2 Ultra. I think they finally ended up releasing a Kyro 2 Xtreme or something like that that bumped up the clock another 20 mhz or so, but was far too late for anyone to care, really
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I believe that is false . I know the card came out before the geforce 3 because it lacked tnl which was the big deal with it and how nvidia fans and ati fans laughed at it . If it was missing tnl , v.s and p.s too then there would be a huge problem with the card

THe kyro 2 came out with the geforce 2 and radeon 64 ddr vivo.

Here it is making 2x fsaa playable at 1024x768
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20010425/kyroII-22.html
 
jvd said:
I believe that is false . I know the card came out before the geforce 3 because it lacked tnl which was the big deal with it and how nvidia fans and ati fans laughed at it . If it was missing tnl , v.s and p.s too then there would be a huge problem with the card

THe kyro 2 came out with the geforce 2 and radeon 64 ddr vivo.

Here it is making 2x fsaa playable at 1024x768
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20010425/kyroII-22.html
Click to expand...

Here is the original Kyro, benched against the GF2MX and the GF2 GTS. And it's splitting the Benchmarks with the MX, (note: this is not a bad thing. When the Kyro came out I believe it was a fair amount cheaper than the MX, and was a good buy).

http://www.onepc.net/reviews/0026/page10.shtml

Secondly, did you even read the whole review that you posted? From the first page: http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20010425/index.html

Despite the fact the chip isn't in the same class as the more expensive, high-end GeForce3, this intelligent math wizard is more than a match for ATI's Radeon, the GeForce2 MX and the GeForce2 GTS. The company carrying the Hercules brand, Guillemot Corporation, has placed orders for vast quantities of chips from STMicro. Hercules itself is planning on bursting onto the market with 60,000 3D Prophet 4500 cards. The 64 Mbyte version will start out selling at a recommended retail price of $149. Guillemot has listed a host of online suppliers for this card at Hercules.com, but the card is not available until mid-May, officially
.
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The Kyro II came out after the GF3. If it had come out at the same time as the GF2, Radeon, and Voodoo 5, (that other non T&L card) it really could have shaken up the market. As it was, when it hit the market it was a midrange performer, and not enough to really grab headlines like a flagship product would. People were too busy concentrating on the GF3 and the upcoming successor to the Radeon. If you'll recall much of the Hubbub over the Kyro II at the time wasn't just that it was in many instances competitive and sometimes better than a GF2, but also because nVidia sent out a presentation slandering it. It struck many people as odd that nvidia would spend so many resources to discredit something that didn't even threaten their high margin products.
 
Dreamcast was expandable but *NOT* upgradable. you could not do CPU, graphics processor or memory upgrades to Dreamcast, as far as I know. There were no actual Dreamcast upgrades planned either. not even real rumblings of a DC upgrade. only false rumor, speculation, and a desire for one by Sega fans.

The Saturn however, *was* upgradable, and at least one, if not more than one, upgrade (3D) was developed for Saturn, but never released. that is in addition to the various memory upgrades Saturn did recieve for various games.


anything by NEC for a 'DC upgrade' that could run rings around the GeForce256 was stuff of fantasy. While the Dreamcast was an awsome, awesome console, running rings around the TNT, Voodoo2, Voodoo3, and perhaps rivaling the TNT2, the DC could not match the GeForce256, especially with DDR. even with PowerVR2DC's advantages over traditional architectures. PowerVR2 was only originally ment to rival Voodoo2, (not GeForce) though PowerVR2 ended up surpassing duel Voodoo2's in SLI, and in many areas, the Voodoo3 also.

like Deadmeat said, there was a Dreamcast2 in development. Sega President Shoichiro Irimajiri stepped down sometime around late 1999 or early 2000 to over see R&D on Dreamcast's sucessor, which I assume was already underway in early-mid 1999.
 
Super Grafx said:
The Saturn however, *was* upgradable, and at least one, if not more than one, upgrade (3D) was developed for Saturn, but never released. that is in addition to the various memory upgrades Saturn did recieve for various games.
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Indeed, and the best game (Street Fighter vs. X-Men) came bundled with just such a 4MB card! Good times, good times...
 
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