Dolby Headphone
- Thread starter vazel
- Start date
vazel have you heard holophonics ?
some demos here:
listen to this (you must use headphones)
http://www.unoriginal.co.uk/Audio/Holophonic.mp3
another one
http://media.putfile.com/Virtual-Barbershop
ps: i agree with you on 5.1 heaphones although 5.1 headphones with hrtf could be interesting
some demos here:
listen to this (you must use headphones)
http://www.unoriginal.co.uk/Audio/Holophonic.mp3
another one
http://media.putfile.com/Virtual-Barbershop
ps: i agree with you on 5.1 heaphones although 5.1 headphones with hrtf could be interesting
i had a really good pair of heaphones and the jack plug broke so i wired them directly to my speaker sockets, they actually made you want to vomit
This is the best source of information I could find so far:
http://www.behardware.com/articles/497-7/5-1-headsets-comparative-test.html
From that review, I'm getting the impression that right now what is holding these headphones back is having to be or wanting to be cheap enough for mass market appeal. For that, using three to four speakers on each side is going to be a problem. Also, they seem to have issues with transitions in particular. I think personally that has to do with more research having gone into the Dolby Headphone technology, which 'knows' more about how the human brain interprets surround (like the wiki article you linked to), as transitions are more likely to be a result of interpretation than basic, static physical location of a sound (just as there is a complex combination of interpretation, interpolation, prediction and perception in the human visual process).
Citing that the 2 speaker based simulations are so far unsuccessful at locating a static sound at the back of the head reinforces this impression a little. Then again, common sense does seem to suggest that you should be able to recreate a full surround experience using stereo speakers, because after all we just have two ear-drums, so it's an interesting subject and I admit not having given it sufficient thought.
Still, so far I get the impression from these reviews that in actual positional audio reproduction, the best two surround headphones (among which the Zalman ZM-RS6F) have an edge over simulated surround when it comes to static positioning, especially for rear-speaker sound. However, overcoming the problems of balancing the three speakers and then enhancing the perception of movement using an algorhithm comparable to that which the algorithm based headphones use, could be very hard to pull off. In that respect, I'd almost think that in-ear headphones should be able to produce the best results, better than covering headphones, because they will be able to use the most predictable output-to-eardrum transmission enhanced by the various algorhythms. It seems cleaner that way and easier to overcome individual differences. But it would still be interesting to know more about why multi-speaker sets are so much better at producing sounds coming from the rear, and if that is the result of an as yet not well understood interpretation aspect, or maybe that there is an overlooked physical aspect at play.
Certainly, hearing stuff coming from the rear probably has at least some kind of advantage, but then there is also probably a reason why cats can turn their ears independently.
Sound reproduction in games:
Thanks to the taut and present mediums, the ZM-RS6F gave a good impression in games. The horizontal positioning of the speakers seemed to work with 3D sound. The front or rear sound position worked, even if transitions still have a lack of subtlety due to the close positioning of the speakers.
Sound reproduction with video DVD:
The ZM-RS6F had good results with 5.1 sound track movies. The restitution of effects on sound positions is good and the positions clearly identifiable. However, sound transitions between two positions(an object going from the front to the back) is still abrupt and lacked of subtlety. This doesn´t happen with speaker sets as sounds progressively fade away in the front reappear in the back with surround speakers.
http://www.behardware.com/articles/497-7/5-1-headsets-comparative-test.html
From that review, I'm getting the impression that right now what is holding these headphones back is having to be or wanting to be cheap enough for mass market appeal. For that, using three to four speakers on each side is going to be a problem. Also, they seem to have issues with transitions in particular. I think personally that has to do with more research having gone into the Dolby Headphone technology, which 'knows' more about how the human brain interprets surround (like the wiki article you linked to), as transitions are more likely to be a result of interpretation than basic, static physical location of a sound (just as there is a complex combination of interpretation, interpolation, prediction and perception in the human visual process).
Citing that the 2 speaker based simulations are so far unsuccessful at locating a static sound at the back of the head reinforces this impression a little. Then again, common sense does seem to suggest that you should be able to recreate a full surround experience using stereo speakers, because after all we just have two ear-drums, so it's an interesting subject and I admit not having given it sufficient thought.
Still, so far I get the impression from these reviews that in actual positional audio reproduction, the best two surround headphones (among which the Zalman ZM-RS6F) have an edge over simulated surround when it comes to static positioning, especially for rear-speaker sound. However, overcoming the problems of balancing the three speakers and then enhancing the perception of movement using an algorhithm comparable to that which the algorithm based headphones use, could be very hard to pull off. In that respect, I'd almost think that in-ear headphones should be able to produce the best results, better than covering headphones, because they will be able to use the most predictable output-to-eardrum transmission enhanced by the various algorhythms. It seems cleaner that way and easier to overcome individual differences. But it would still be interesting to know more about why multi-speaker sets are so much better at producing sounds coming from the rear, and if that is the result of an as yet not well understood interpretation aspect, or maybe that there is an overlooked physical aspect at play.
Certainly, hearing stuff coming from the rear probably has at least some kind of advantage, but then there is also probably a reason why cats can turn their ears independently.
Sound reproduction in games:
Thanks to the taut and present mediums, the ZM-RS6F gave a good impression in games. The horizontal positioning of the speakers seemed to work with 3D sound. The front or rear sound position worked, even if transitions still have a lack of subtlety due to the close positioning of the speakers.
Sound reproduction with video DVD:
The ZM-RS6F had good results with 5.1 sound track movies. The restitution of effects on sound positions is good and the positions clearly identifiable. However, sound transitions between two positions(an object going from the front to the back) is still abrupt and lacked of subtlety. This doesn´t happen with speaker sets as sounds progressively fade away in the front reappear in the back with surround speakers.
Hey, that is interesting, as that worked rather well - in the first one I could hear behind me, to the side, below and up. The only direction missing was in front of me, though, I never located the sound there.
The second one, the virtual barbershop, is much better though! Awesome. I stand corrected completely. 'Manuel' is correctly heard to the front left of me playing guitar.
Awesome. And it is funny also!The only thing missing for me was someone walking past me in front of me.
It's clear to me now though that I was completely wrong! It's basically all a matter of enconding now. Great stuff, thanks for the demoes davros, and vazel, please excuse my stubborn-ness
.Yea I've probably heard them all. I like the barbershop the best. There was also one of someone shaking a box of matchsticks around the room that I liked a lot(edit: I see that's the first one in your link, 'holophonic.mp3'). And one of a girl softly talking around the room in another language that made me feel all woozy.
"Holophonics" is a form of binaural recording, that is, a way of recording live sounds. That's why it isn't relevant for games. Haven't we already been through this?
Binaural recording is an age-old technique and it can work very well. But is requires a dummy head recording of the original live material and is only suitable for headphone listening. Trying to simulate binaural recordings requires HRTFs. Which is of course what has been done for years.
That would make the audio disjointed and would be highly annoying.
What? Something previously recorded is easily done. That's not at all what is being said. When you must create audio from a random occurrence in the gameworld it would get much harder. Sure you could have play a sound clip for a room or such and have beeps and buzzes but lets say someone in that room starts talking. In games today how loud, where the majority of the volume is coming from, etc is determined on your characters position. Something like that would not be possible with holophonics, or at the very least be very very hard to implement.
Hey, that is interesting, as that worked rather well - in the first one I could hear behind me, to the side, below and up. The only direction missing was in front of me, though, I never located the sound there.
The second one, the virtual barbershop, is much better though! Awesome. I stand corrected completely. 'Manuel' is correctly heard to the front left of me playing guitar.
The only thing missing for me was someone walking past me in front of me.
It's clear to me now though that I was completely wrong! It's basically all a matter of enconding now. Great stuff, thanks for the demoes davros, and vazel, please excuse my stubborn-ness
Encoding? "holophonic" audio requires it to be recorded with appropriate methods / correctly placed microphones, it's not about encoding.
If you can record it, you can encode it. It won't be easy, but in theory at least it has to be possible. And it's obvious that companies like Dolby are pursuing that direction. Don't tell me I'm completely off base again and that 3-4 speaker per ear headsets are actually the way to go after all?
If you can record it, you can encode it. It won't be easy, but in theory at least it has to be possible. And it's obvious that companies like Dolby are pursuing that direction. Don't tell me I'm completely off base again and that 3-4 speaker per ear headsets are actually the way to go after all?
No no, we just need holophonic audio and stereoheadsets are just fine, now the problem is how to get holophonic audio into everything
Depends on your ears, if you are unlucky and the HRTFs available in your software/hardware are a bad match, then yes ... trying to reproduce the soundfield outside your ears is the only way to get good localization.Don't tell me I'm completely off base again and that 3-4 speaker per ear headsets are actually the way to go after all?
If I were to design a 3D headset I'd probably try using rudimentary HRTF based filtering for the low frequencies and multiple very small speakers for the high frequencies so you can keep things more compact. That Zalman headset just looks too unwieldly for me.
PS. in the end it 3D audio from 2 sources always comes down to linear filtering with better or worse HRTFs. There is nothing special about holophonics, don't fall for the pseudo scientific hype.
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i have both (well a vortex2 + an audigy) and they sound good but not upto the standard of holophonics
(although the xfi is supposed to have better hrtf than the audigy)
ps: found another holophonics demo
http://www.stage6.com/user/erencexor/video/1762622/Holophonic-Holophonics
(although the xfi is supposed to have better hrtf than the audigy)
ps: found another holophonics demo
http://www.stage6.com/user/erencexor/video/1762622/Holophonic-Holophonics
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