Does HDD SMART ever be useful for you?

Discussion in 'PC Hardware, Software and Displays' started by orangpelupa, Sep 5, 2019.

?

HDD smart useful?

  1. Yep! I got SMART warning, backup the data, and awhile later it goes kaput

    3 vote(s)
    42.9%
  2. Useless! I got broken HDD with healthy SMART

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  3. SMART is so dumb

    3 vote(s)
    42.9%
  1. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    7,100
    Likes Received:
    1,279
    My anecdote:

    * clicking HDD with horrible read write speed have HEALTHY SMART
    * HDD With "failed" SMART status is still going strong for years (more than 3 years I think).
    * HDD suddenly totally broke and SMART gave no warning (its supposed to give you a warning of imminent failure after BIOS screen or after windoes logo, I forgot)
     
    Lightman likes this.
  2. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
    Moderator Legend Alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    12,409
    Likes Received:
    8,611
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Your interpretation of SMART report is what's wrong. They are not a single result of Drive is Good or Drive is bad. They are indicators. You need to know what changes in them indicate. It's all in knowing what signs to pay attention to, while certain fields may not signal failure they serve as a request for further investigation.

    My file server has never suffered any data loss in the past decade and a half.
     
    AlBran likes this.
  3. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    14,862
    Likes Received:
    2,279
    My anecdote:
    run program that displays smart data
    see a lot of numbers i dont understand
    quit program
     
    digitalwanderer likes this.
  4. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    7,100
    Likes Received:
    1,279
    Its the official tool from Seagate, hgst, wd themselves that says its fail / failure despite the HDD still working fine for years. And they also the one that says HDD still healthy and then the next day the HDD goes kaput.

    Shouldn't those manufacturers already have the statistics, so their apps can properly tell you imminent failure?
     
  5. tongue_of_colicab

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,437
    Likes Received:
    644
    Location:
    Japan
    Didn't get any SMART warnings, HDD died suddenly. Happened a couple of weeks ago. Though in my case I think it might be the controller or something and not the actual disk. Maybe SMART doesn't work for that.

    But there is no guarantee that any kind of sense is 100% accurate and even it if it is, hardware could always fail before you have a chance to do something about it. In my case I only had 2 mechanical drives fail on me, one of them that got carried around every day so it suffered a lot of abuse, in 15+ years. Just backup your important stuff and learn to live with the fact you might loose your pr0n collection some day ;)
     
  6. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
    Moderator Legend Alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    12,409
    Likes Received:
    8,611
    Location:
    Cleveland
    As I said before, you need to look at all indicators. You can't just assume its an All or Nothing thing.

    Some are more important than others. Some may not be in "failure" state but seeing them increase is a sign of impending failure. I don't have time to explain the ins and outs of these (Gears 5 unlocking soon), but if you do any amount of reading about these particular indicators on a fileserver forums you'll be better off.

    Here's the more important SMART Indicators to monitor. Any increase in these is an early warning sign despite them not being flagged as FAILING / FAILING NOW.
    5 - Reallocated sectors count
    187 - Reported uncorrectable errors
    188 - Command time-out
    197 - Current pending sector count
    198 - Uncorrectable sector count
    199 - UDMA CRC error rate
     
    orangpelupa likes this.
  7. Florin

    Florin Merrily dodgy
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,645
    Likes Received:
    214
    Location:
    The colonies
    I do agree we're far better off now that we have these valuable statistics than we were pre-SMART.
    We now tend to preemptively schedule replacement of drives as soon as a sector re-mapping or timeout occurs.

    But the OP does have a truthy point. Seen many drives fail suddenly despite active SMART monitoring not breathing a word beforehand.
     
    orangpelupa likes this.
  8. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
    Moderator Legend Alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    12,409
    Likes Received:
    8,611
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Uhm, those stats are provided by SMART monitoring, so they are breathing a word beforehand.
     
    orangpelupa likes this.
  9. Florin

    Florin Merrily dodgy
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,645
    Likes Received:
    214
    Location:
    The colonies
    Yes and we're glad to have them. But I'm talking about cases where there wasn't any indication beforehand of any such events, and still sudden instant drive failure.
     
    orangpelupa likes this.
  10. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    7,100
    Likes Received:
    1,279
    And my clicking HDD still shows healthy smart :/

    BTW my HDD with failed smart status have maxed the pending sector counts for years and still wkfking fine :/
     
  11. pcchen

    pcchen Moderator
    Moderator Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,743
    Likes Received:
    106
    Location:
    Taiwan
    I remembered reading a Google report about this a few years ago. The conclusion is that about only 30% of their HDD failure (Google has a lot of HDDs as you can imagine) had SMART warnings beforehand. There's no data about how long a HDD goes on with SMART warnings as I imagine that they probably always replace a HDD with SMART warning, so there's no indication on the rate of false positive.
     
    orangpelupa likes this.
  12. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
    Moderator Legend Alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    12,409
    Likes Received:
    8,611
    Location:
    Cleveland
    digitalwanderer and orangpelupa like this.
  13. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
    Moderator Legend Alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    12,409
    Likes Received:
    8,611
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Also you should be running at least a SMART short test every month then examining the results instead of being passive and only looking at indicators from your usage.

    Before I add drives to my array, I put them through at least a 2 cycle check using what's known in unRaid as "preclear". This is around 36 hours for a 8 TB drive for 1 cycle, so 72 hours for 2 cycles. It exercises the drive by doing a full verified read, verified write, and verified read. A SMART test is run before and after and compared. I have had drives fail the test by showing pending sectors or uncorrectables or even read failures. These get returnned for replacement under warranty.

    Hard drives follow a bathtub curve, they fail early on or they fail extremely late in the life cycle. Its important to test drives before you trust it with your data.
     
    digitalwanderer and orangpelupa like this.
  14. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    7,100
    Likes Received:
    1,279
    Btw SMART is even more useless for SSD.

    I have old Samsung ssd, the one with electric bug, where the data will detoriate the older it is. Then Samsung released "refresh tool" that basically move the data around from one block to another.

    Its hilariously slow. The write speed can go down as slow as KILOBYTES per seconds hahaha.

    The read speed also randomly goes up and down like a pendulum.

    Then I repurposed it as a portable storage with only temporary files and it works good enough.


    About that bathtub curve, that's my justification for getting used 1TB first Gen Seagate SSHD for PS4 PRO.

    It was only 25 dollars, and it's like 5 or 7 years old already.

    Currently very happy with it. It's blazing fast! (when reading from cache, it's utter slow when writing to disk)
     
  15. A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y

    Regular

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    277
    ^ This

    If you are on Windows I recommend using CrystalDiskInfo: https://crystalmark.info/en/download

    Under the Function Tab of CrystalDiskInfo check both Resident and Startup to have it start when Windows boots and keep it running always even if exited.

    If one of the above SMART Indicators increases you will get a warning and the status of the drive in question goes from Good (Green) to Caution (Yellow).
     
    orangpelupa, digitalwanderer and BRiT like this.
  16. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    7,100
    Likes Received:
    1,279
    Yeah I use that app too. It's free and readable
     
  17. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    14,862
    Likes Received:
    2,279
    And are those numbers good? I have no idea
     
  18. BRiT

    BRiT (╯°□°)╯
    Moderator Legend Alpha Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    12,409
    Likes Received:
    8,611
    Location:
    Cleveland
    Those are the Indicators. Indicator 5, 187, 188, 197, 198, and 199.

    Since you're unaware, here's some reading: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.
     
    A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y likes this.
  19. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    7,100
    Likes Received:
    1,279
    Brit meant those are the stuff/items you need to keep watch of.

    If they keeps increasing in short time, HDD probably is sick.

    OMG my English getting worse and worse
     
  20. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    14,862
    Likes Received:
    2,279
    Take
    197 - Current pending sector count
    Is 197 good? is it bad? i dont know
    how many does it have to increase by before its a problem 1? ,2? 10? I dont know
    do I have to run the program every day and write down the numbers?
    when you say increasing in short time whats that? Minutes, days, weeks I dont know
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...