Does Cell = PPU in Physics Calculations?

[skilzygw]

Just wondering what the Physics capabilities of the CELL chip in the PS3 is? Is it equal to the numbers being thrown around for the Ageia PPU?

Are Physics calculations one of Cell's strong points?

IS PS3 Cell > 3 Core IBM PPC 3.2ghz Xbox360 (In Physic Calculations only)


thanks!!!

 

[ManuVlad3.0]

Epic VP Mark Rein

The PlayStation 3 Cell architecture is very similar to the hardware design of the Ageia chip, so the PC will be able to get superaccelerated also. The Ageia NovodeX API, when they bring it over to the PlayStation 3, will be very fast, very powerful--similar to the Ageia [chip]

Hardware GameSpot

 

[mckmas8808]

Thanks ManuVlad thats all that we need to see. Case closed the answer is yes. No other.
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[jvd]

Wait . Why is he saying hte pc will get super accelerated also ? bad type


Anyway I doubt that the cell while doing all its normal tasks + physics + sound + post processing for the gpu + procedual (sp?) tasks that it will be as fast as a dedicated ppu esp since the ppus should have at least a 128megs of ram just for itself .

 

[blakjedi]

Thanks ManuVlad thats all that we need to see. Case closed the answer is yes. No other.

There was no real relationship to x360 in Marks statement. there was no comparison just a one-off about Cell :? How is the case closed with that when the question was based on a comparison?

 

[ralexand]

Thanks ManuVlad thats all that we need to see. Case closed the answer is yes. No other.

That ends it. It should never be bought up again.

 

[pc999]

That makes it a very economical choice for PC users to just pop a [physics] chip into the PC and then have the full physics effects that will be available on the PlayStation 3 or the Xbox 360.

A little bellow in that link above.

 

[Frank]

If I had to guess, I would think that (according to the very cryptic specs so far) four SPE's running at the same speed as the PPU would offer about equal performance. We'll see.

 

[skilzygw]

So in your estimation how do the three stack up against eachother?

Lets use the PPU as a base, lets say it could do
32,000 physics calculations. What could the Cell and Xbox360 do in comparison? Numbers dont have to be accurate just wondering comparitively speaking how it would fare.

 

[jvd]

I would put ppu at the top then most likely cell then the x360 cpu. But i don't think the diffrence between the cell and the x360 will be very big .

 

[randycat99]

Does anybody even know what kind of hardware constitutes a PPU, anyway? Is it just a single SIMD engine with some supporting circuitry, an array of SIMD's, other? Clockrates? 250 GB/s of bandwidth? (cuz, 250 GB/s is teh kewl numb3rz)

 

[jvd]

Does anybody even know what kind of hardware constitutes a PPU, anyway? Is it just a single SIMD engine with some supporting circuitry, an array of SIMD's, other? Clockrates? 250 GB/s of bandwidth? (cuz, 250 GB/s is teh kewl numb3rz)

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23390

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23046

The PhysX chip will be manufactured with 0.13 micron technology at TSMC, and the 182sq.mm die will host 125 million transistors, which is larger than that of mainstream graphics processing units, such as ATI RADEON X700.

From what i recall the cards currently have a 128 megs of ram on them

 

[DemoCoder]

I find it funny how people who zero clue as to how the PPU operates or its specifications make blind assertions as to how it will be faster than something else.

 

[Frank]

Does anybody even know what kind of hardware constitutes a PPU, anyway? Is it just a single SIMD engine with some supporting circuitry, an array of SIMD's, other? Clockrates? 250 GB/s of bandwidth? (cuz, 250 GB/s is teh kewl numb3rz)

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23390

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23046

The PhysX chip will be manufactured with 0.13 micron technology at TSMC, and the 182sq.mm die will host 125 million transistors, which is larger than that of mainstream graphics processing units, such as ATI RADEON X700.

From what i recall the cards currently have a 128 megs of ram on them

Yes, the PPU needs to hold the whole scene in memory, and do a lot of the same things as the CPU and / or the GPU next to calculating the actual physics. As long as we have no idea how they are going to do that, we cannot compare it, even if we would know the actual specs of the hardware.

 

[mckmas8808]

But the cool thing about that is if someone's lead moneymaking platform is the PlayStation 3, they're going physics up the wazoo because they have so much power. That makes it a very economical choice for PC users to just pop a [physics] chip into the PC and then have the full physics effects that will be available on the PlayStation 3 or the Xbox 360.

Now I take this quote made by the Vice President of Epic and then look at the quote jvd made.

Anyway I doubt that the cell while doing all its normal tasks + physics + sound + post processing for the gpu + procedual (sp?) tasks that it will be as fast as a dedicated ppu esp since the ppus should have at least a 128megs of ram just for itself .

Now hmmm.... Who should I believe? The VP of Epic that says the PS3 and 360 are going to have the full effects available while the PCs have to pop in the physics chip. Or should I believe jvd who says he doubts the CELL probably can't do what the physics chip in the PCs will be able to do + everything else. I think I will go with the VP thank you.
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Suzuki Gsx1100F Specifications

 

[pc999]

Taking in acount DiGuru reply it is a lot easier to belive in the VP of Epic.

 

[jvd]

Now hmmm.... Who should I believe? The VP of Epic that says the PS3 and 360 are going to have the full effects available while the PCs have to pop in the physics chip. Or should I believe jvd who says he doubts the CELL probably can't do what the physics chip in the PCs will be able to do + everything else. I think I will go with the VP thank you.

Perhaps you should read. He states all you have to do is pop in a ppu to have the full effects of the cell and the x360 which is simply true they have much more cpu power than a normal computer. But what you don't understand is he never siad what you would have to do to have full ppu affects on the ps3 and x360 . He only mentions going one way .

 

[Carl B]

I wouldn't get excited over what the VP of any company says, frankly, unless they outright put it in some sort of quantifiable context. Sweeny has a vested interest in saying the things he says - not saying I think he's lying, just that I take his comments (as with anyone's) and place them within the context of this huge tapestry we know as the console business.

Now, I personally think Cell will do very well at physics, but it certainly has nothing to do with what Sweeny has contributed to the dialogue.

 

[mckmas8808]

Now, I personally think Cell will do very well at physics, but it certainly has nothing to do with what Sweeny has contributed to the dialogue.

Well I was referring to Mark Rein and I think that his comment adds to the conversation. We can't discuss these things without this great interviews. I suggest we look at what these guys say and take it at face value with some common sense of course. See the following quote is what I'm trying to stay away from.

But what you don't understand is he never siad what you would have to do to have full ppu affects on the ps3 and x360 . He only mentions going one way .

Does he really have to go into super deep detail. For you (jvd) these guys have to give a 30 minute presentation of everything thats possible to make you think it maybe possilbe on the PS3 and 360.
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[Coola]

sounds to me like someone wants a lil firepower for the fanboy wars