Do you expect the ps3 will be the most powerful system?

[Ty]

Disregarding how silly the original question is, it's just as silly to argue with the person who asked the question in the first place. As far as I understand, he has clarified that he meant consoles so why continue to bring up the arcade sector?

 

[London Geezer]

Disregarding how silly the original question is, it's just as silly to argue with the person who asked the question in the first place. As far as I understand, he has clarified that he meant consoles so why continue to bring up the arcade sector?

Because Lazy hasn't turned a thread into a "SEGA is the best" thread in a while.

 

[Jacob]

Disregarding how silly the original question is, it's just as silly to argue with the person who asked the question in the first place. As far as I understand, he has clarified that he meant consoles so why continue to bring up the arcade sector?

Because if we include the arcade sector, Sega is not out of the hardware business anymore and therefore is still directly competing with the other big guys, instead of being on its actual position as a third party developer.

I'm not as obsessed with Sega as Lazy8s is, but I seriously hope that they make a huge come back as a game dev next gen. Some of my favorite games from the last 20+ years were created by them. Good memories.


On topic: If PS3 is released 4-6 months after Xbox2, I expect PS3 to have a slight tech advantage, even if in the end they'll both produce similar results. I don't know where Nintendo stands here..

 

[wco81]

Even if PS3 is released later than Xenon, hasn't the Cell design phase been in process a lot longer? Didn't the design of the Xenon CPU start later?

The Cell is expected to have more overall raw performance than the Xenon CPU. However, perhaps this advantage isn't as big as it might have been if the design for both chips started at the same time?

Of course, the people designing the Xenon CPU didn't know what they were benchmarking against until recently.

 

[Kolgar]

For what it's worth, the new EGM had some interesting things to say on this issue.

Until now, most developers hadn't seen PS3 kits and were annoyed that Sony wasn't showing them anything. These developers were excited about Xenon. But apparently, one developer has whispered that PS3 is "an order of magnitude" more powerful than Xbox 2. He said, "It's insanely powerful."

Believe it or not.

 

[London Geezer]

For what it's worth, the new EGM had some interesting things to say on this issue.

Until now, most developers hadn't seen PS3 kits and were annoyed that Sony wasn't showing them anything. These developers were excited about Xenon. But apparently, one developer has whispered that PS3 is "an order of magnitude" more powerful than Xbox 2. He said, "It's insanely powerful."

Believe it or not.

EGM. "Someone said that someone else whispered". Enough said.

 

[Sonic]

London-Boy, can you quit with these posts that offer absolutely nothing to a thread. These side comments of yours really bring down threads and boards as a whole. What you have ben doing is the same as trolling, so just cool it and post when you have somethong to contribute to a thread.



Anyway, the PS3 will probably the most powerful system for next generation. We'll see as time goes but it also depends on how easy it is for devs to get the power out of. We know the environment for making gmes on Xbox 2 will be very flexible and easy for devs, especially if we take into account that it's a MS system and MS is the king when it comes to this. If PS3 has good dev tools and is substantially more powerful than Xbox 2 then we will take a notice.

I do believe all three systems will have the same graphics level in the first few years, not until two years into it will we probably see the big differences.

 

[Ty]

Because if we include the arcade sector

But that's my point. The originator of this thread has intimated that he was looking at consoles, not the arcade sector.

I'm not as obsessed with Sega as Lazy8s is, but I seriously hope that they make a huge come back as a game dev next gen. Some of my favorite games from the last 20+ years were created by them. Good memories.

Oh I love Sega too (probably my favortite developer/console maker!) due to the nostaglia of the Genesis (first console I had - err...discounting the 2600). But that's neither here nor there.

 

[GwymWeepa]

I think that if consoles weren't competition for arcades then the arcade industry would still be booming. The biggest reason people went to arcades in the past is because the graphics were WAY better, as well as the interactive control on certain games. When home graphics became as good as arcades and the quality of wheels, flightsticks, etc became better and featured vibration that's when arcades started to die. The arcade cannot survive unless it has something better than what you can get at home. There is competition there.

Consoles are competition to arcades, not the other way around. Sega's next board is no competition to ps3. So again, will ps3 be more powerful than its competitors? This includes MS, Nintendo, and any fool company that could possibly make a console considering the market.

I disagree. Unless you mean it in the way that the Ngage is no competition to the Gameboy, i.e. it's nowhere near as popular. People only have so much money, and so much time to play video games. If Sega's new arcade board lures me to the arcade for 3 hours a day I'm going to spend less time playing at home, and therefore spend less money buying games for my console/s.

Gameboy is a competitor to N-gage, not the other way around. It doesn't sell jack, how can something that is no threat be considered a true competitor? Same goes with arcades...I mean if you asked the main man in Sony to name his competitors, do you think he'll ever mention arcade machines? Probably not. Then ask an arcade manufacturer his major competitors and he'll probably mention home consoles at the top of his or her list.

 

[Jacob]

Ok, maybe this needs a little (long) explanation.

But that's my point. The originator of this thread has intimated that he was looking at consoles, not the arcade sector.

I know, but you have to see it from the point of view of someone who is obsessed with Sega like Lazy8s.

Not only did Sega go out of the hardware business, but everybody was expecting them to become one of the biggest third parties after that and it sort of never happened. Except for a few titles, the last 3-4 years Sega hasn't been what it used to be IMHO. Fans of the company are aware of this situation and see them reentering the hw business as the only solution, the only way in which the company will regain its position in the gaming industry. This is a dramatic way of telling it, but I'm trying to explain how Lazy8s views it.

And now there's all this talk about next gen, about Sony, MS and Nintendo but there's no mention of Sega. For the first time since the 80s, a new console gen is coming and Sega won't be there as one of the contenders. As I see it, Lazy8s is just defending Sega's position in the industry, and Sega's next gen arcade board is the closest thing to a Sega next gen console, and the only way in which Sega could have a place in all these next gen discussions (in the mind of Lazy8s). I don't think what the originator of this thread wanted matters to him.

 

[Ty]

Uh ok... /shrug

 

[Jacob]

Uh ok... /shrug

I should have replied with a "he doesn't care"; shorter and gets directly to the point. Sorry, I always notice when I need some sleep because my mind keeps going in circles about the most stupid things.

 

[zidane1strife]

For what it's worth, the new EGM had some interesting things to say on this issue.

Until now, most developers hadn't seen PS3 kits and were annoyed that Sony wasn't showing them anything. These developers were excited about Xenon. But apparently, one developer has whispered that PS3 is "an order of magnitude" more powerful than Xbox 2. He said, "It's insanely powerful."

Believe it or not.

If only that were true... you'd probably need a BE, and an equally beefy PS-heavy gpu, and you'd have to up the ram significantly to do that. But alas, that's most likely not it . Such a setup, would surely allow the ps3's games gphx to keep up with those from h/w released years after it (especially given how pc games tend to be made with older h/w in mind, and budgetary constraints which are more important there given average lower sales... ).

That's the kinda h/w I envisioned when I made my console vs pc prediction not so long ago, though it seems it most likely won't be...(I mean just the look, just the thought, of seeing a high-end PC gamer's face after paying 3k+$ a year after ps3's launch only to get a weaker gaming system, would be worth it )

 

[Kolgar]

That's the kinda h/w I envisioned when I made my console vs pc prediction not so long ago, though it seems it most likely won't be...(I mean just the look, just the thought, of seeing a high-end PC gamer's face after paying 3k+$ a year after ps3's launch only to get a weaker gaming system, would be worth it )

LOL, you're right there. That would just be rich.

I've gotta say though, that today, with the likes of MGS3, GT4, and Tekken 5, I'm pretty pleased with how the old, outdated, [insert other derogatory adjective here] PS2 has stood the test of time.

If PS3 holds up better over the course of its life, I'll be a happy camper.

P.S. I can't remember details of the EGM tidbit I mentioned in my post above, so I didn't really do it much justice. But in the mag, it sounds a bit more credible and certainly worth considering, despite the fact that names were not named.

 

[TEXAN]

SEGA's next gen arcade board won't be the most powerful anyway.

I agree. Sega's next gen arcade board probably won't be as powerful Xbox2 let alone PS3. PowerVR is providing the graphics hardware again, but this time I doubt PowerVR can come up with a single GPU can can rival what is going into Xbox2, Revolution and PS3. the only way that a PowerVR-based arcade board could rival or surpass nextgen consoles, is if they use like, maybe, four PowerVR5 GPUs. or even like maybe two overclocked PowerVR5 GPUs with *alot* of RAM. otherwise, I just don't see Sega's new arcade board being as powerful as the new consoles-- the reason is, I doubt Imagination Technologies / the PowerVR team has enough resources to compete with ATI or Nvidia, this time.

It's not like last time, when PowerVR2 could, performance & feature-wise, whip a much smaller Nvidia who had no 3Dfx/Gigapixel and alot less SGI. or an ATI that lacked ArtX/SGI and Real3D. Now that Nvidia and ATI have absorbed a great deal of engineering talent and technology/IP from the rest of the 3D graphics industry, I just do not see how PowerVR can compete anymore, at the highend. unless, PowerVR has also absorbed some additional talent, and comes out with an absolute miracle-chip.

on the otherhand, I am not ruling out a very agressive Sega board with 2-4 PowerVR5 GPUs, plus some additional custom hardware (i.e ELAN in N2) and alot of RAM. ...yeah, i know the new Sega board wouldn't *need* a seperate T&L unit like the N2 did, because PowerVR would have put Vertex Shaders into Series 5, thus making PowerVR5 a real GPU, unlike PowerVR2... So i just gave ELAN T&L as an example of additional hardware for an arcade board that isn't found (seperate) in consoles (Xbox, Cube) or at all (DC, PS2)... now back to what I was saying.... even with two Dreamcast 3D accelerator chips (CLX2) the N2 is able to surpass the PS2 and pretty much rival the Gamecube and Xbox. that's pretty much because of the ELAN unit and the large amount of RAM in N2.
therefore, a new Sega board with, say, 2-4 Series5 GPUs and some other supporting hardware, plus maybe 1 or 2 *very* powerful CPUs, and 512 MB or more RAM, might be able to surpass Xbox2 and perhaps even rival PS3 & Rev in actual in-game visuals.

but that is probably two to three times *more* than what SEGA will have actually gone for in their new board. so more likely, they're coming out with a more modest board with 1 or 2 PowerVR5 GPUs (instead of 2-4) and just 1 fairly fast CPU, *no* addional support hardware (like ELAN was for N2) and just 256-512 MB of RAM. Thus, at best, the new Sega board might come close to Xbox2 performance. or maybe not quite. and certainly *not* close to PS3 and Revolution performance.

well, that's about all i have to say. Sonic did the short version, I did the long version. heh. thats my speculation for tonight on this subject.

I disagree completely.

I'm willing to bet that Sega Sammy's next board is technologically a whole generation ahead of PS3/XB2.

And that home consoles wont be able to emulate the games of this system until the arrival of PS4/XB3, by which time Sega Sammy will be ready to launch its own trailblazing console.

 

[Inane_Dork]

P.S. I can't remember details of the EGM tidbit I mentioned in my post above, so I didn't really do it much justice. But in the mag, it sounds a bit more credible and certainly worth considering, despite the fact that names were not named.

Claiming 10x more power from 6 month newer hardware is not very believable.

 

[Megadrive1988]

SEGA's next gen arcade board won't be the most powerful anyway.

I agree. Sega's next gen arcade board probably won't be as powerful Xbox2 let alone PS3. PowerVR is providing the graphics hardware again, but this time I doubt PowerVR can come up with a single GPU can can rival what is going into Xbox2, Revolution and PS3. the only way that a PowerVR-based arcade board could rival or surpass nextgen consoles, is if they use like, maybe, four PowerVR5 GPUs. or even like maybe two overclocked PowerVR5 GPUs with *alot* of RAM. otherwise, I just don't see Sega's new arcade board being as powerful as the new consoles-- the reason is, I doubt Imagination Technologies / the PowerVR team has enough resources to compete with ATI or Nvidia, this time.

It's not like last time, when PowerVR2 could, performance & feature-wise, whip a much smaller Nvidia who had no 3Dfx/Gigapixel and alot less SGI. or an ATI that lacked ArtX/SGI and Real3D. Now that Nvidia and ATI have absorbed a great deal of engineering talent and technology/IP from the rest of the 3D graphics industry, I just do not see how PowerVR can compete anymore, at the highend. unless, PowerVR has also absorbed some additional talent, and comes out with an absolute miracle-chip.

on the otherhand, I am not ruling out a very agressive Sega board with 2-4 PowerVR5 GPUs, plus some additional custom hardware (i.e ELAN in N2) and alot of RAM. ...yeah, i know the new Sega board wouldn't *need* a seperate T&L unit like the N2 did, because PowerVR would have put Vertex Shaders into Series 5, thus making PowerVR5 a real GPU, unlike PowerVR2... So i just gave ELAN T&L as an example of additional hardware for an arcade board that isn't found (seperate) in consoles (Xbox, Cube) or at all (DC, PS2)... now back to what I was saying.... even with two Dreamcast 3D accelerator chips (CLX2) the N2 is able to surpass the PS2 and pretty much rival the Gamecube and Xbox. that's pretty much because of the ELAN unit and the large amount of RAM in N2.
therefore, a new Sega board with, say, 2-4 Series5 GPUs and some other supporting hardware, plus maybe 1 or 2 *very* powerful CPUs, and 512 MB or more RAM, might be able to surpass Xbox2 and perhaps even rival PS3 & Rev in actual in-game visuals.

but that is probably two to three times *more* than what SEGA will have actually gone for in their new board. so more likely, they're coming out with a more modest board with 1 or 2 PowerVR5 GPUs (instead of 2-4) and just 1 fairly fast CPU, *no* addional support hardware (like ELAN was for N2) and just 256-512 MB of RAM. Thus, at best, the new Sega board might come close to Xbox2 performance. or maybe not quite. and certainly *not* close to PS3 and Revolution performance.

well, that's about all i have to say. Sonic did the short version, I did the long version. heh. thats my speculation for tonight on this subject.

I disagree completely.

I'm willing to bet that Sega Sammy's next board is technologically a whole generation ahead of PS3/XB2.

And that home consoles wont be able to emulate the games of this system until the arrival of PS4/XB3, by which time Sega Sammy will be ready to launch its own trailblazing console.

well, we will just have to agree to disagree then. I don't think Sega Sammy is going to come out with a board that crushes Xbox2-Rev-PS3 like the Lockheed Martin Real3D Model 3 board crushed the N64/PS1 and unreleased 3DO M2. At the most, I think it could be another NAOMI 2, that achives, more or less, parity with the strongest next-gen consoles. but even this is somewhat unlikely. there is hardly any money in the arcade market anymore to justify such a beast of a system. its not like the early to late 1990s.

The situation you are discribing is a Sega fanboi's wet dream. well, ...I guess it can be nice to dream sometimes

 

[London Geezer]

London-Boy, can you quit with these posts that offer absolutely nothing to a thread. These side comments of yours really bring down threads and boards as a whole. What you have ben doing is the same as trolling, so just cool it and post when you have somethong to contribute to a thread.

errrm... huh? i was merely pointing out that EGM's article saying that they heard from word of mouth that PS3 will be an order of magnitude is not exactly the most reliable source ever.
If that doesnt contribute to the thread, then even the guy's remarke that EGM said what they said dodnt contribute, cause it's all speculation.
And personally, although PS3 might be more powerful than Xbox2, it will certainly not be an order of magnitude more powerful.

 

[Kolgar]

From the April 2005 issue of EGM, page 82:

PlayStation 3 > Xbox 2
Every time I've chatted about next-gen consoles with the development community, nobody has really been able to tell me which machine has the most horsepower... until now. One high-profile developer who has seen both PS3 and Xbox 2 technology recently whispered into my innocent ear, "The next PlayStation is way, way more powerful than Xbox 2. It's insanely powerful. But don't cry, all you Xbots out there--my source promises that we'll still be quite impressed with the capabilities of Microsoft's Xbox successor.

Make of it what you will.

 

[BriefcasemanX]

I think that if consoles weren't competition for arcades then the arcade industry would still be booming. The biggest reason people went to arcades in the past is because the graphics were WAY better, as well as the interactive control on certain games. When home graphics became as good as arcades and the quality of wheels, flightsticks, etc became better and featured vibration that's when arcades started to die. The arcade cannot survive unless it has something better than what you can get at home. There is competition there.

Consoles are competition to arcades, not the other way around. Sega's next board is no competition to ps3. So again, will ps3 be more powerful than its competitors? This includes MS, Nintendo, and any fool company that could possibly make a console considering the market.

I disagree. Unless you mean it in the way that the Ngage is no competition to the Gameboy, i.e. it's nowhere near as popular. People only have so much money, and so much time to play video games. If Sega's new arcade board lures me to the arcade for 3 hours a day I'm going to spend less time playing at home, and therefore spend less money buying games for my console/s.

Gameboy is a competitor to N-gage, not the other way around. It doesn't sell jack, how can something that is no threat be considered a true competitor? Same goes with arcades...I mean if you asked the main man in Sony to name his competitors, do you think he'll ever mention arcade machines? Probably not. Then ask an arcade manufacturer his major competitors and he'll probably mention home consoles at the top of his or her list.

Because arcades aren't popular anymore doesn't mean that Sega/Sammy aren't trying to change that. Again, if I'm spending hours at an arcade than I'm not spending as much on console games unless I'm a super rich 4th grader with an unlimited budget and no time constraints. If people play the new Sega/Sammy board in arcades it WILL take away from consoles. Someone who bought an Ngage probably isn't going to buy another handheld gaming device so yes it's competition albeit small competition. We have yet to see how popular(and therefore how big of competition to consoles) the new board will be. They are both after the same customers.