Do you expect the ps3 will be the most powerful system?

[Titanio]

I can't see how the CELL can help in the graphical sense if both machines are using PC derived GPU solutions.

It may be a big if. Both Xenon and PS3 may well lean on their CPUs for graphics tasks to one degree or another, which would certainly make things more interesting.

 

[Pugger]

Off course, if the CPU is called on for shading etc then that would make a significant difference.

 

[blakjedi]

nothing official has ever come out of ms on xbox2. patents are simply diagrams of potential working products designed to show component configuration.... the final specs may be equal to or (more likely greater than) what we know now...

Add to that we have NO IDEA whats the r500 looks like (as opposed to the 520 which has been taped out) and it supposedly wont be finished until the end of march...

there is really nothing to go off of at this time except the cell...

 

[_phil_]

If it's not the most powerful, Sony have really managed to screw up!

or they choosed to make it in the same range of powerl but without selling it at any lost.

 

[Geeforcer]

Which to me seems to suggest the differences we see between a 9700 and a 6800, IE very little.

I beg to differ. If there is 9700 to 6800 difference in graphic performace, I'd say PS3 will have major advantage.

 

[Spidermate]

We know the PS3 will have a GPU based on Nvidia's next gen PC GPU. We know XB2 will have an ATI GPU based on its next gen PC GPU. Looking at it simply the differences graphically will be the difference between what Nvidia can gain say over 3-6 months extra developemnt time. Which to me seems to suggest the differences we see between a 9700 and a 6800, IE very little. I can't see how the CELL can help in the graphical sense if both machines are using PC derived GPU solutions. Oh and I'm still convinced the CELL will be a 1-8 setup although the 8 bit is quite interesting.

You need a break, seriously.

 

[Killer-Kris]

According to accounts, PS3 has been in development the longest with the biggest RnD budget, the largest collaboration of technologies with a more substantial backing due to wider technological market (Cell in more than PS3), and is coming out later giving more time for progress.

Just to put that in perspective, you need to keep in mind that both the Pentium 4 and Itanium (take your pick) took longer and cost more than K8 to develop. Time and money can help make up for poor design decisions, but they often can't completely overcome it.

 

[Lazy8s]

london-boy:

Blue Gene 2006

I don't suspect that'll have the graphics capabilities to compete with Sega Sammy's system.

the thread was about consoles

It's about the "most powerful system", which refers to the particular, highest specced dedicated platform for videogames. Sega Sammy's forthcoming high-end platform is going to be a system for which a considerable offering of top videogame titles will be produced.

 

[Sonic]

Arcade games are different from videogames. Arcade games cannot be bought and played on a videogame system, you need to go to the arcade to do it.

SEGA's next gen arcade board won't be the most powerful anyway.

 

[cthellis42]

Which to me seems to suggest the differences we see between a 9700 and a 6800, IE very little.

I beg to differ. If there is 9700 to 6800 difference in graphic performace, I'd say PS3 will have major advantage.

I think someone just mixed up their card models somewhat.

 

[see colon]

I expect the differences between Xbox2, PS3 and Revolution to be smaller than Xbox vs PS2.

Why?

i would say because this generation microsoft wasn't too concerned with the cost of the hardware, at least compared to sony or nintendo. rumors suggest that microsoft was loosing over $100 per console, and sony less than $100 (i've heard $50, $75, but who knows) and launched a year later. i would imaging this upcoming gen microsoft would loose closer to what sony looses per console at launch, giving sony a slight advantage in speed because of the later launch, but not the extra power gained from the higher budget.

i'm not sure if that made sense to anyone else. basicly i'm saying that with xbox microsoft had the extra year of develeopment and the general drop in tech prices, and still threw extra money into the mix to ensure their system was the most powerfull one out at the time. that's in contrast to what nintendo did, they had the year advantage but went with a more frugal setup to maximise profits.

 

[Lazy8s]

Sonic:

Arcade games are different from videogames.

"Video game" refers to the type of electronic game played on a video screen that started back at the time of the oscilloscope experiments, mainframe text-adventures, Pong, and such. The arcades are just a specific market.

"Dedicated console" refers to the type of video game systems that manufacturers like Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft make.

Arcade games cannot be bought and played on a videogame system, you need to go to the arcade to do it.

Arcade systems are R&D'ed for the exact purpose of playing video games. They're just the highest-end market for it and not a home-use market.

SEGA's next gen arcade board won't be the most powerful anyway.

Some said that back when the Sony "PS-X", SEGA Saturn, and Nintendo "Ultra 64" were rumored to be coming along with superchips to leave Model 2 in the dust, and some said it again with fevered speculation that some 'nigh-supercomputer' chip for PS2 had supposedly sent SEGA back to the drawing boards on their next planned arcade system and even potentially into a deal with Sony for licensing of the Emotion Engine.

 

[Sonic]

Who these people are would be nice to know. It was a different situation back in the 90's when the arcades were still prominent in North America. What is SEGA giong to do? Have a monster CELL chip with an Nvidia SLI graphics solution? No.

This isn't a matter of arguing so much as the belief that SEGA will always have the most powerful hardware. This simply isn't the case any more. If you knew more then I would understand, but when comapnies like Namco have the potential of having the most powerful arcade system in the next few eyars hten it would be time to reevalute certain beliefs.

 

[GwymWeepa]

Just for reference the original post said this:

"If so, how much more powerful than the competition would you expect it to be?"

I don't know who considers arcades competition to consoles.

 

[BriefcasemanX]

I think that if consoles weren't competition for arcades then the arcade industry would still be booming. The biggest reason people went to arcades in the past is because the graphics were WAY better, as well as the interactive control on certain games. When home graphics became as good as arcades and the quality of wheels, flightsticks, etc became better and featured vibration that's when arcades started to die. The arcade cannot survive unless it has something better than what you can get at home. There is competition there.

 

[Megadrive1988]

SEGA's next gen arcade board won't be the most powerful anyway.

I agree. Sega's next gen arcade board probably won't be as powerful Xbox2 let alone PS3. PowerVR is providing the graphics hardware again, but this time I doubt PowerVR can come up with a single GPU can can rival what is going into Xbox2, Revolution and PS3. the only way that a PowerVR-based arcade board could rival or surpass nextgen consoles, is if they use like, maybe, four PowerVR5 GPUs. or even like maybe two overclocked PowerVR5 GPUs with *alot* of RAM. otherwise, I just don't see Sega's new arcade board being as powerful as the new consoles-- the reason is, I doubt Imagination Technologies / the PowerVR team has enough resources to compete with ATI or Nvidia, this time.

It's not like last time, when PowerVR2 could, performance & feature-wise, whip a much smaller Nvidia who had no 3Dfx/Gigapixel and alot less SGI. or an ATI that lacked ArtX/SGI and Real3D. Now that Nvidia and ATI have absorbed a great deal of engineering talent and technology/IP from the rest of the 3D graphics industry, I just do not see how PowerVR can compete anymore, at the highend. unless, PowerVR has also absorbed some additional talent, and comes out with an absolute miracle-chip.

on the otherhand, I am not ruling out a very agressive Sega board with 2-4 PowerVR5 GPUs, plus some additional custom hardware (i.e ELAN in N2) and alot of RAM. ...yeah, i know the new Sega board wouldn't *need* a seperate T&L unit like the N2 did, because PowerVR would have put Vertex Shaders into Series 5, thus making PowerVR5 a real GPU, unlike PowerVR2... So i just gave ELAN T&L as an example of additional hardware for an arcade board that isn't found (seperate) in consoles (Xbox, Cube) or at all (DC, PS2)... now back to what I was saying.... even with two Dreamcast 3D accelerator chips (CLX2) the N2 is able to surpass the PS2 and pretty much rival the Gamecube and Xbox. that's pretty much because of the ELAN unit and the large amount of RAM in N2.
therefore, a new Sega board with, say, 2-4 Series5 GPUs and some other supporting hardware, plus maybe 1 or 2 *very* powerful CPUs, and 512 MB or more RAM, might be able to surpass Xbox2 and perhaps even rival PS3 & Rev in actual in-game visuals.

but that is probably two to three times *more* than what SEGA will have actually gone for in their new board. so more likely, they're coming out with a more modest board with 1 or 2 PowerVR5 GPUs (instead of 2-4) and just 1 fairly fast CPU, *no* addional support hardware (like ELAN was for N2) and just 256-512 MB of RAM. Thus, at best, the new Sega board might come close to Xbox2 performance. or maybe not quite. and certainly *not* close to PS3 and Revolution performance.

well, that's about all i have to say. Sonic did the short version, I did the long version. heh. thats my speculation for tonight on this subject.

 

[GwymWeepa]

I think that if consoles weren't competition for arcades then the arcade industry would still be booming. The biggest reason people went to arcades in the past is because the graphics were WAY better, as well as the interactive control on certain games. When home graphics became as good as arcades and the quality of wheels, flightsticks, etc became better and featured vibration that's when arcades started to die. The arcade cannot survive unless it has something better than what you can get at home. There is competition there.

Consoles are competition to arcades, not the other way around. Sega's next board is no competition to ps3. So again, will ps3 be more powerful than its competitors? This includes MS, Nintendo, and any fool company that could possibly make a console considering the market.

 

[JasonLD]

I think it is more "likely" that PS3 will be more powerful than Xbox2, but i dont really know PS3 games will look much "prettier" than Xbox2 games...Since Nvidia's and Ati's offerings are not going to be so radically different from each other..they may end up producing similar looking graphics.
Nintendo Revolution might end up being most powerful console...who knows.

 

[Lazy8s]

A custom arcade board is a competing system design to a console system, if nothing else.

 

[BriefcasemanX]

I think that if consoles weren't competition for arcades then the arcade industry would still be booming. The biggest reason people went to arcades in the past is because the graphics were WAY better, as well as the interactive control on certain games. When home graphics became as good as arcades and the quality of wheels, flightsticks, etc became better and featured vibration that's when arcades started to die. The arcade cannot survive unless it has something better than what you can get at home. There is competition there.

Consoles are competition to arcades, not the other way around. Sega's next board is no competition to ps3. So again, will ps3 be more powerful than its competitors? This includes MS, Nintendo, and any fool company that could possibly make a console considering the market.

I disagree. Unless you mean it in the way that the Ngage is no competition to the Gameboy, i.e. it's nowhere near as popular. People only have so much money, and so much time to play video games. If Sega's new arcade board lures me to the arcade for 3 hours a day I'm going to spend less time playing at home, and therefore spend less money buying games for my console/s.