DirectX Next - Longhorn only !?

[Geeforcer]

Thanks Geeforcer, I appreciate the notes.

EDITED BITS: "•Also mention – higher integrated chipset volume than NVIDIA, P4 license, imageon, xilleon etc"

P4 license? That's the first I've officially heard!

ATI (unlike Nvidia) has P4 license forever. I am surprised at the proposition that they sell more integrated graphics chipsets then Nvidia, considering the popularity of nforce and relative obscurity of ATi's offering.

 

[hoom]

But dave

•Steer people away from flow control in ps3.0 because we expect it to hurt badly. [Also it’s the main extra feature on NV40 vs R420 so let’s discourage people from using it until R5xx shows up with decent performance...]

That indicates to me sm3.0 in r420.
This surprises me as I never bought the sm3 in r420 before the 'sm3.0 dropped for r420' bit... :?

 

[digitalwanderer]

Sorry, I haven't really kept up on the Intel side of things since somewhere around the time of the 1.4Ghz Tulatin Celeron...since then I've been learning nForce2 stuff.

So what else have we learned?

-R500 is coming THIS year!
(" •Mention that you expect to see a 512MB board in the consumer space this year. Don’t say that it’ll be R420 based!")

-ATi is determined to push higher-end graphics.
("•This is to let PC developers know that they usually aim too low. PC’s only last on average about 2 years as games machines before they get heavily upgraded – top end graphics cards in retail last on average only about 18 months before being replaced.")

 

[Miksu]

Heh, nice find. Didn't notice the comments when I first time read the slides. Thanks for pointing those out

 

[MfA]

Digital wanderer, I read that more to mean that it will be the R420 myself ... I mean they know everything, so the comment only makes sense in the "dont tip off too much information" kind of way.

You arent going to tell someone who knows R500 is coming out this year with 512 MB not to mention that the R420 is coming out this year with 512 MB. Makes little sense, would be like putting "dont lie about this" in there. Which doesnt seem the style of the rest of the comments.

 

[Miksu]

Digital wanderer, I read that more to mean that it will be the R420 myself.

Yep, same here.

 

[oddfellow]

But dave

•Steer people away from flow control in ps3.0 because we expect it to hurt badly. [Also it’s the main extra feature on NV40 vs R420 so let’s discourage people from using it until R5xx shows up with decent performance...]

That indicates to me sm3.0 in r420.
This surprises me as I never bought the sm3 in r420 before the 'sm3.0 dropped for r420' bit... :?

I would suggest the opposite.

Steer people away from flow control in ps3.0 because we expect it to hurt badly

He may be simply suggesting that flow control hurts SM3.0 performance in general.

Also it’s the main extra feature on NV40 vs R420

He's saying that SM3.0 (not flow control) is the main extra feature that NV40 has over R420.

so let’s discourage people from using it until R5xx shows up with decent performance

I think he's suggesting that they discourage people from using SM3.0 (again, not flow control) until R500, which obviously will be a SM3.0 part.

 

[anaqer]

I am surprised at the proposition that they sell more integrated graphics chipsets then Nvidia, considering the popularity of nforce and relative obscurity of ATi's offering.

I always thought that most of the NF2 chipsets sold included the SPP, not the IGP as a northbridge.

 

[McDusty]

-R500 is coming THIS year!
(" ?Mention that you expect to see a 512MB board in the consumer space this year. Don?t say that it?ll be R420 based!")[/i]

I was going to coment on this. Since the R423 is 'R420 based' - they can't be talking about that. So, either they expect Nvidia to push a high ram part or we'll be seeing the R500 sooner than we thought.

Of course - they may simply not want to give to much away on their R420 plans.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Digital wanderer, I read that more to mean that it will be the R420 myself.

Yep, same here.

Mebbe, but I'll betcha Fuad is going to have "an insiders scoop" about the R500 coming out this year now. 8)

 

[digitalwanderer]

-R500 is coming THIS year!
(" ?Mention that you expect to see a 512MB board in the consumer space this year. Don?t say that it?ll be R420 based!")

I was going to coment on this. Since the R423 is 'R420 based' - they can't be talking about that. So, either they expect Nvidia to push a high ram part or we'll be seeing the R500 sooner than we thought.

It could also mean that they're going to be putting out a 512MB R423 when they release their PCI-E line-up, but I prefer the R500 theory.

 

[hoom]

Oddfellow, if your interpretation is correct then both you & the author have an odd idea of English grammar.
The 'its' generally refers to the first mentioned thing ie flow control.
(well, that or I have some crazy ideas about grammar myself )

Also, why would he suggest waiting for "r5xx... with decent performance" if there is 'no performance' in r420.
Surely he means there is 'poor performance' in r420.

 

[PaulS]

Also, why would he suggest waiting for "r5xx... with decent performance" if there is 'no performance' in r420.
Surely he means there is 'poor performance' in r420.

Or NV40.

 

[Geeforcer]

Oddfellow, if your interpretation is correct then both you & the author have an odd idea of English grammar.
The 'its' generally refers to the first mentioned thing ie flow control.
(well, that or I have some crazy ideas about grammar myself )

Also, why would he suggest waiting for "r5xx... with decent performance" if there is 'no performance' in r420.
Surely he means there is 'poor performance' in r420.

Or on NV40...

Edit: LOL, I've been bested.

 

[oddfellow]

Oddfellow, if your interpretation is correct then both you & the author have an odd idea of English grammar.
The 'its' generally refers to the first mentioned thing ie flow control.
(well, that or I have some crazy ideas about grammar myself )

Also, why would he suggest waiting for "r5xx... with decent performance" if there is 'no performance' in r420.
Surely he means there is 'poor performance' in r420.

Possibly. But remember these are just his personal notes. He knows what he's reffering to so his grammar may not be 100% correct. It also would give some substance to the widely believed theory that R420 is not SM3.0 capable.

The "wait for R5xx" bit could simply be suggesting that R5xx will have decent shader 3 performance in comparison to what NV4x currently has.

All theories I know, but that's how I read it.

EDIT: LOL I've been bested.... TWICE!

 

[Geeforcer]

Quick question: you don't need to support flow control to be PS 3.0 compliant, correct?

 

[oddfellow]

Quick question: you don't need to support flow control to be PS 3.0 compliant, correct?

I think you're right.

I'm still reading it like R420 has no shader 3 though

 

[Raystream]

Woa

This gets more funny every minute....

Raystream

 

[elroy]

-R500 is coming THIS year!
(" ?Mention that you expect to see a 512MB board in the consumer space this year. Don?t say that it?ll be R420 based!")

I was going to coment on this. Since the R423 is 'R420 based' - they can't be talking about that. So, either they expect Nvidia to push a high ram part or we'll be seeing the R500 sooner than we thought.

It could also mean that they're going to be putting out a 512MB R423 when they release their PCI-E line-up, but I prefer the R500 theory.

Or that they're putting out a 512MB board with the R420 refresh (R450 for example, not that I know if that's the codename or not).

 

[Hanners]

I'm still reading it like R420 has no shader 3 though

Me too, although reading between the lines I got the impression that R500 wouldn't be ATi's first 3.0 shader model offering - Maybe this is going to become part of a refresh for R420?