DirectX Next - Longhorn only !?

[Dave Baumann]

Once the cat is out of the bag, it's out. Whether something ever was intended for the public eye matters not one whit once it is. B3D has no particular reason to keep ATIs secrets for them unless they are under NDA. And this particular material was out in the open.

News sites being too much in bed with the industry they are supposed to cover are a problem.

You make the assumption that we the time to make a qualative new post out of it - you'll note that there has been lots of info floating around from GDC that we could have talked about now, but frankly I've not had the time to poor over the documents and neither has anyone else (evidently). Given the style of new post I tend.

Sensationalistic elements aside, IMO, the main point I take from that presentation and its related notes is the architectural picture that Huddy paints as the direction quite evidently ATI now appears to be on - this is the element that I probably will pick up on, but not now and not because of ATI.

Besides, if we were keeping secrets from anyone this thread wouldn't be here now - you think ATI still wants it here?

 

[digitalwanderer]

Not give IHV a headache? That's a strange standard to ascertain newsworthiness. Quite new too, apparently. Note, I have no problems with each site deciding what to publish or not as news. I am just wondering WHY any site to publish such news would be deemed “unprofessionalâ€￾

How about thinking of it as not jeapordizing a valuable source of future information over a questionable call of a news item?

Sometimes you choose to do that. No one MAKES you, or even asks you...but sometimes you do it as a professional curteousy and those type of favors are generally remembered and returned.

It's part of maintaining a relationship sometimes. I'm not saying that's what they did or that's how they should make their decisions, I'm just speculating.

 

[ben6]

Well every news poster has the obligation to deem it worthy of posting or not on ANY story. Otherwise you get a bunch of nonsensical stories to get more hits. We all know sites like that without naming names

 

[Geeforcer]

Well every news poster has the obligation to deem it worthy of posting or not on ANY story. Otherwise you get a bunch of nonsensical stories to get more hits. We all know sites like that without naming names

I completely agree, but in my mind there is a difference between not publishing any particular item (which everyone is welcome to do or not to do) AND calling people who do publish it "unprofessional".

 

[Doomtrooper]

This was a internal document meant for a presentation, so of course there is going to be some hype. Unlike another PP presentation that bordered on slander vs. PVR...there was no links to review sites, there was no trashing of the competitors products.

Beyond3D showed some class as usual, give it rest for the rabid Nvidia fanboys looking for anything that they can get vs ATI.
Richard Huddy has never been known for pulling punches, after all he did start at Nvidia, read the DX Dev mailing list if you think this stuff is juicy.

 

[Pete]

Not give IHV a headache?

Don't bite the hand that feeds you. In this case, most 3D sites are dependent on sample cards for both timely reviews and budgetary reasons. You don't want to anger your only possible source for a review sample, and there have been a couple cases where this has proven true (that I'm aware of).

 

[Doomtrooper]

The above analogy doesn't apply, give your head a shake. If I had access to your personal presentation for a meeting would I make it front page news.

I seriousaly think this forum is filling itself daily anymore with mindless twits.

 

[ben6]

The above analogy doesn't apply, give your head a shake. If I had access to your personal presentation for a meeting would I make it front page news.

I seriousaly think this forum is filling itself daily anymore with mindless twits.

Exactly Doomtrooper, which is why I toned down my initial reaction. It's not fair to post personal notes on a presentation. Has nothing to do with review samples.

 

[g__day]

Geeforcer, I said it was professional for an analysis site IMHO not to leap out and publish. You implied I asserted the converse applies to all news sites, which frankly is simply an POV I never stated - hold that as your own opinion not mine.

I praise B3D for its actions, I have no comment on other's sites situation or respective professionalism.

 

[Pete]

The above analogy doesn't apply, give your head a shake. If I had access to your personal presentation for a meeting would I make it front page news.

I seriousaly think this forum is filling itself daily anymore with mindless twits.

Was that in response to my post? I fail to see the relevance (though my brain could indeed use a clarifying shake). The "mindless twits" bit is also confusingly harsh, but this is the second flame I've received in as many days, so my ego has been calloused already.

 

[Entropy]

Once the cat is out of the bag, it's out. Whether something ever was intended for the public eye matters not one whit once it is. B3D has no particular reason to keep ATIs secrets for them unless they are under NDA. And this particular material was out in the open.

News sites being too much in bed with the industry they are supposed to cover are a problem.

You make the assumption that we the time to make a qualative new post out of it - you'll note that there has been lots of info floating around from GDC that we could have talked about now, but frankly I've not had the time to poor over the documents and neither has anyone else (evidently).

Hmm.
I phrased the last line of my post in such a general way because I didn't want to point the finger at B3D per se, but at a phenomenon that I'm not very happy with in reporting - that the reporters/journalists get too chummy with those they are reporting on, and their loyalties thereby shift away from the public they are supposed to report to. It happens easily, and for quite natural reasons. That doesn't make it any better though.

While the remark was directed to you guys, it was intended more as a reminder that you really don't have any obligations to ATI, and if maintaining good relations an IHV requires you to report according to their wishes, it's a problem for a news site, and not really a good relation after all...

Once something is out, it is out - paparazzi shots, Watergate tapes, whatever. It is not "unethical" to report on it just because it was never intended for the public eye. In fact it is typically that kind of content that is of particular interest - that which haven't passed through all appropriate channels and gotten stamps of approval along the way as being sufficiently bland and tasteless to be suitable for public consumption.

We can read PR ourselves, hell, we spend most of our time trying to avoid being forcibly spoon-fed with it. Beyond3D, while often dominated by reckless speculation on these forums, really shines when its collective talent and mind sinks their teeth into some kind of problem or ambiguity, and gets to the bottom of it.

Approved by the IHV or not.

 

[Simon F]

Huh? It is pretty clear that the talk given during the presentation was based on the presenter notes, outlining what to tell developers during the presentation. I fail to see reason why what Nvidia wrote for the vendors should be made public but what ATI told developers is off-limits.

The question is "Did the ATI document contain outright lies and misinformation?" Certain other documents fell into that category.

 

[Geeforcer]

Well actually, my question was: What is the criteria to determine whether to publish the news? Is it the nature of the document (confidential, not intend for public eyes) the content (lies Vs merely inflammatory comments) source (official, albeit erroneous publication Vs unauthorized leak) or impact on the company?

 

[Evildeus]

The question is "Did the ATI document contain outright lies and misinformation?" Certain other documents fell into that category.

Well, we need to wait and see then how the NV40 performs

PS: I do agree with some points of Entropy
PPS: Is the borad really slow today, or is it me??

 

[Bry]

Well actually, my question was: What is the criteria to determine whether to publish the news? Is it the nature of the document (confidential, not intend for public eyes) the content (lies Vs merely inflammatory comments) source (official, albeit erroneous publication Vs unauthorized leak) or impact on the company?

Any real reporter would want to write a news article on facts. Look at this thread..There are many opinions as to what certain parts of the article means. In other words people are speculating what they are reading. True news is not speculation. it should be based on Facts. Since I am sure no one at Beyond 3d or any other web sight was in attendance at the meeting they would have to speculate what the news means.
Are they going to speculate that R420 has 512 MB of memory, or that R500 will be released before the end of the year. Are they going to speculate that R420 will not have PS/VS 3.0, or that they will have it but it will not run very good, and thus not be very usefull. And does this article show that ATI has inside info reguarding whether or not NV40 will run it good (this they protect themselves because they do not support it) Or that NV40 has PS3.0, but cant run it very well, and it is just a marketing skeem to sell their cards over ATI, which does not support it.
All this is speculation and not news. We have enough Inquirer news sights around. Beyond3d has been great in their news articles and reviews, and have become a reputable sight for not being fanboyish..To write a news article on this report and all the speculation that would have to be provided, would be a HUGE mistake for Beyond 3d or any other web site!!
I give cudos to Dave and beyond 3d for leaving this alone..This has NOTHING to do with them not trying to hurt ATI's feelings, or trying to get into their graces. Get real!!

 

[Evildeus]

Hmmm, speculations are also news. And you need to speculate to make facts.

 

[anaqer]

Hmmm, speculations are also news. And you need to speculate to make facts.

No offense, but thinking like that, you'd fit right into the gang at Inq.

 

[Evildeus]

Sorry, but facts doesn't exists per se for me. You need to comprehend those things, and thus speculate. And speculate doesn't mean BS

 

[Bjorn]

There are many opinions as to what certain parts of the article means. In other words people are speculating what they are reading. True news is not speculation. it should be based on Facts.

Well, the fact is that the document exists and the fact is that it was/is available on Ati's site.

 

[Lezmaka]

There are many opinions as to what certain parts of the article means. In other words people are speculating what they are reading. True news is not speculation. it should be based on Facts.

Well, the fact is that the document exists and the fact is that it was/is available on Ati's site.

Well, from what I can tell, B3D isn't the kind of place that will post something about a document that exists and was available on ATI's website for a short time.