Development Strategy Speculation

[Nite_Hawk]

I tried to bring this up in the future proof thread, but it was drown out by people arguing over whether or not two HDMI ports are overkill.

What do you guys think of Microsoft and Sony's development strategies for the upcoming consoles? Sony seems to be trying to standardize the hardware, while Microsoft appears to be trying to standardize the APIs. Sony may be doing this too, though they are bringing nvidia in to help with API development. I wonder if nVidia, or sony will end up owning the intellectual property for the API, and what kind of long term partnerships they have planned?

Also, I'm curious about how much Sony will *really* end up doing with the Cell. It certainly feels like it was designed to be scalable, but will there actually be a place for it outside of videogame consoles (and perhaps using it to build cluster nodes)?

On the other side, Microsoft seems to want the xbox360 not to really be a replacement to the PC, but rather a replacement for a media PC. I wonder how successful it will be in this regard. Will the lack of a blueray drive end up hampering its media capabilities down the road?

Another question is how much copy protection and DRM will be built into the systems? I could see a more open platform becoming very popular if people could use it to playback non-drmed music and movies the same way a Media PC can.

Anyway, post your thoughts here.

Nite_Hawk

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

Well, first be careful of how you use stadards... standards usually refer to a format that allows interoperability between platforms... if that's how you're thinking, then I think Sony has the lead with COLLADA and OpenGL. However, if you just mean MS is trying to make things easier for developers, then sure.

There have already been several announcements as to CELL's uses. IBM has created CELL servers and another company (name I can't recall, sorry) is already developing for CELL in medical and military imaging. Not to mention Toshiba plans on putting CELLs in their TVs in 2007.

I'd disagree, if MS wanted Xbox360 to replace the MediaCenter PC they wouldn't have made it an "extender", but rather a full-fedged MediaCenter PC. Maybe they do plan to do this, but as a deluxe version ala the PSX... the Xbox360 Media Center PC or something like that.

As to DRM... MS and Sony would DRM our souls if they could. There's absolutely nothing to lose by DRMing... you see Joe sixpack doesn't even KNOW what RM is, thus can't care. Expect it up the Wazzoo, in full force next gen. Just pray for the hackers to be smart, real smart.

 

[Nite_Hawk]

Well, first be careful of how you use stadards... standards usually refer to a format that allows interoperability between platforms... if that's how you're thinking, then I think Sony has the lead with COLLADA and OpenGL. However, if you just mean MS is trying to make things easier for developers, then sure.

Well, Microsoft seems to be going for standardization across "their" platforms (both current and future). Sony seems to be much more interested in hardware standardization from the way they market Cell. With Collada/OpenGL, it's tough to know if this going to be a long term strategy for them, or only this generation.

There have already been several announcements as to CELL's uses. IBM has created CELL servers and another company (name I can't recall, sorry) is already developing for CELL in medical and military imaging. Not to mention Toshiba plans on putting CELLs in their TVs in 2007.

I think it's a bit too early to say much about Cell at this point. Developing workstations is one thing (technically there was the GSCube too), but actual widespread use in TVs and other consumer systems is another thing entirely.

I'd disagree, if MS wanted Xbox360 to replace the MediaCenter PC they wouldn't have made it an "extender", but rather a full-fedged MediaCenter PC. Maybe they do plan to do this, but as a deluxe version ala the PSX... the Xbox360 Media Center PC or something like that.

I think Microsoft really wants to have it's cake and eat it too. They don't want the xbox360 to be powerful enough that it scares off IHVs and threatens the PC market, but at the same time they want an easy way to lockdown the living room. I think the idea with the xbox360 is that it will serve the same basic purpose as a mediaPC but require a (windows) host to do anything, ensuring that you keep your PC up to date and use Microsoft's latest media software.

As to DRM... MS and Sony would DRM our souls if they could. There's absolutely nothing to lose by DRMing... you see Joe sixpack doesn't even KNOW what RM is, thus can't care. Expect it up the Wazzoo, in full force next gen. Just pray for the hackers to be smart, real smart.

I actually think that people care more about DRM than they realize. It's not so much that they directly care that this hardware or that hardware supports DRM. More that if one particular sytem had the ability to run something like Kazaa or Edonkey and their friends all have the ability to get free music/movies and play them back while they don't, they'll want the other system.

I'm still amazed at how the "general" population has picked up on Kazaa and WinMX, with a total disregard for how it works and how they can be monitored. You are right, they don't care about things like DRM, privacy, and such. What they do care about is the ability to get free entertainment and media. A hardware company that understands this and exhibits a willingness to turn a blind eye to the uses of their equipment probably stands to make a lot of money when everyone else embraces DRM.

Nite_Hawk

 

[scooby_dooby]

just a couple of point, MS is planning 360 as a complement to Media PC not a replacement. WMC + x360 is the perfect set-up, you can watch TV through the XBOX, recieve game alerts on scren, pause live TV, watch recorded videos, playback all the multimedia on your PC, it's really a sweet set-up.

the same will go for Windows Vista(longhorn) so the 360 will drive sles of longhorn and vice versa.

second, I don't think you'll ever see a p2p network on consoles, one workd VIRUSES. It's too risky, noi one wants to buy a $300 dedicated piece of hardware only to have it rendered useless by a software virus.

 

[Carl B]

There have already been several announcements as to CELL's uses. IBM has created CELL servers and another company (name I can't recall, sorry) is already developing for CELL in medical and military imaging. Not to mention Toshiba plans on putting CELLs in their TVs in 2007.

Indeed - Cell may or may not see widespread 'success' down the line, but it's actually pretty impressive the traction it seems to have gotten thus far. We're still to see whether it indeed does make the jump to consumer electronics, but I'm expecting that it will. As for the company you're thinking about, that's Mercury Systems.

Here's their 'Cell' info hub page: Links to Mercury Systems Cell pages

And here's something else I have no doubt they'll be 'porting' to Cell in due time to serve additional markets: Ray-Tracing deal

 

[BlueTsunami]

And here's something else I have no doubt they'll be 'porting' to Cell in due time to serve additional markets: Ray-Tracing deal

Woah...you should check out the company that made that deals site (inTrace)....the gallery of pictures shows some crazy reflective light stuff...the twin beetles pictures is pretty amazing to..also the hella lamp...scratch that...all of them look really amazing...

EDIT: Heres the link to the companies (inTrace) website...just click on the rocker dude... (^.-) \,,/ ...errr...trying to get inventive with the hyperlinks....mix it up a little

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

Many thanks, Xbd, I'm absolutely terrible with names. Thanks for the link as well, and same to you Blue - very cool.

 

[Titanio]

And here's something else I have no doubt they'll be 'porting' to Cell in due time to serve additional markets: Ray-Tracing deal

They already have, that's the thing the Saarcor people were and are working on. They were demoing RT on Cell at Siggraph, but unfortunately I can't see any reporting about that.

With Collada/OpenGL, it's tough to know if this going to be a long term strategy for them, or only this generation.

I think given that these are open standards for multiple platforms, there's no reason why they won't scale up to meet PS4 demands. One of the points SCEA wanted to get across in their GDC presentation on Cell was that they didn't want devs to have to learn a new API etc every time they come out with new hardware. Collada is all about scaleability across platforms.

I think it's a bit too early to say much about Cell at this point. Developing workstations is one thing (technically there was the GSCube too), but actual widespread use in TVs and other consumer systems is another thing entirely.

Work on the software, the "ecosystem" for Cell, won't be confined to work relating to consumer apps. The work Mercury and perhaps others will be doing should benefit Cell's software situation generally (for example, Mercury talked about some middleware they were working on for "automatic" splitting of workloads and allocation to SPEs etc.), despite their apps obviously not being aimed at the general consumer.

 

[Carl B]

They already have, that's the thing the Saarcor people were and are working on. They were demoing RT on Cell at Siggraph, but unfortunately I can't see any reporting about that.

I thought the Saarcor people were demonstrating a hardware solution; their supposed 'RTU.' Or am I confused on what went down at Siggraph?

 

[blakjedi]

Uh that beetle demo looks worse than most rendered games...

 

[BlueTsunami]

Uh that beetle demo looks worse than most rendered games...

The Beetle Demo you saw isn't about making about making everything look pretty but about global illumination and correct reflection of light, in that respect those demos are amazing.