Dell 2007WFP

radeonic2 said:
And lcds have a major black level issue :p as well as all the issues that go with a fixed resolution device.

Yep. They must be pretty good in other areas for so many people to prefer them to CRTs then, eh?
 
MuFu said:
Yep. They must be pretty good in other areas for so many people to prefer them to CRTs then, eh?

I'm trying to imagine two 24" widescreen CRTs on my desk. I'm not doing well at it. I mean, it is a pretty sturdy desk, but still. :LOL:
 
MuFu said:
Yep. They must be pretty good in other areas for so many people to prefer them to CRTs then, eh?
my take: people prefer them to crts because apparently they like to put a lot of crap on their desk/ lan gamers :D
Because as a gamer you can't always use the native res and everyone knows what that does to the sharpness of lcds ;)
I wonder how many people with 20" lcds are running at 1600x1200 (or 1680x1050) in Oblivion.
The fact of the matter is that lcds cannot offer the quality that a GOOD crt can.
Now a 100 doller crt... sure, but not a good one.
crt= better black level (which leads to higher contrast...), multisync, better color.
The disadvantages are size (not an issue for me), geometry and possible moire problems.
Some people say sharpness but I prefer the softer image ;)
geo said:
I'm trying to imagine two 24" widescreen CRTs on my desk. I'm not doing well at it. I mean, it is a pretty sturdy desk, but still. :lo:
Pfft.
If you can sit on your desk and not break it you're fine.. unless you're a little guy :D
 
radeonic2 said:
If you can sit on your desk and not break it you're fine.. unless you're a little guy :D

geo is massive. He's had lots of space to grow since ditching his CRT.
 
Guild navigator....mmm....that means you`ve got some spice, ehh?you lucky individual:p:)
 
So the 2007WFP supporting HDCP over DVI suggests that Dell know we'll soon see graphics cards that support HDCP over DVI in the near future? :?:
 
radeonic2 said:
Because as a gamer you can't always use the native res and everyone knows what that does to the sharpness of lcds ;)
[...]
Some people say sharpness but I prefer the softer image ;)
Then you shouldn't have a problem with the reduced sharpness of non-native res.

Seriously, with a quality LCD, I can't tell the difference between native and a slighty lower non-native. (clarification: In a single game, I haven't investigated widely)

crt= [...] better color.
That myth has been busted several times, here's one:
http://www.behardware.com/articles/613-5/the-last-crt-survey.html
 
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radeonic2 said:
my take: people prefer them to crts because apparently they like to put a lot of crap on their desk/ lan gamers :D
Because as a gamer you can't always use the native res and everyone knows what that does to the sharpness of lcds ;)
I wonder how many people with 20" lcds are running at 1600x1200 (or 1680x1050) in Oblivion.
The fact of the matter is that lcds cannot offer the quality that a GOOD crt can.
Now a 100 doller crt... sure, but not a good one.
crt= better black level (which leads to higher contrast...), multisync, better color.
The disadvantages are size (not an issue for me), geometry and possible moire problems.
Some people say sharpness but I prefer the softer image ;)
Advantages to an LCD:
much sharper (AA and cleartype make them fuzzy just for you)
no radiation (the shielding doesn't block all of it)
no flickering (you won't go blind as early)
size
instant on
much less power draw
last longer (replacing a flourescent tube is easy and cheap)
flat screens (yes CRTs are available in flat as well but they still have imperfect geometry)
geometry that doesn't need adjusting

Color and response time is a non factor on a good LCD as they look just as good to me as a CRT and contrast ratio isn't noticable unless you're looking at a completely black screen. Btw, LCDs with high resolutions don't look that bad when you run them a resolution below their native and even less so when you enable AA.

Yeah, your two points surely outweight the above.
 
radeonic2 said:
The problem with lcds for me is like I said: they have more severe issues than crt tubes.
Crts have issue but they'll all minor in comparison to issues with lcds.
Of course any tech you simply declare to have less issues than another tech is going to have less issues, regardless of the actual issues.

CRTs have plenty of major issues:
* They draw huge amounts of power and hence produce enormous waste heat levels.
* They have big issues with geometry, uniformity and convergence.
* They irradiate the user with gamma rays, and immerse them in fluxing magnetic fields.
* Moire patterns are common, and inherently unavoidable.
* Analog interconnect is susceptible to interference and signal degradation, and analog output is typically less than stellar on most GFX cards, particulary at high pixel clocks.
* Pixel sharpness goes down as resolution goes up; inherently unavoidable.
* Picture quality noticeably degrades as analog components deteriorate over time.
* And, they're big and heavy.

I'm sure I could list more, but my feckin shoulder hurts liike a sonofabitch for no reason just by sitting here typing, I really don't know what to do. I could barely put on a shirt this morning. :(
 
ANova said:
Advantages to an LCD:
much sharper (AA and cleartype make them fuzzy just for you)
no radiation (the shielding doesn't block all of it)
no flickering (you won't go blind as early)
size
instant on
much less power draw
last longer (replacing a flourescent tube is easy and cheap)
flat screens (yes CRTs are available in flat as well but they still have imperfect geometry)
geometry that doesn't need adjusting

Color and response time is a non factor on a good LCD as they look just as good to me as a CRT and contrast ratio isn't noticable unless you're looking at a completely black screen. Btw, LCDs with high resolutions don't look that bad when you run them a resolution below their native and even less so when you enable AA.

Yeah, your two points surely outweight the above.
Radiation- shutup untill a study proves it causes some kind of damage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode_ray_tube
Ionizing radiation: CRTs also emit very small amounts of X-rays as a result of the electron beam's bombardment of the shadow mask/aperture grille and phosphors. Almost all of this radiation is blocked by the thick leaded glass in the screen so the amount of radiation escaping the front of the monitor is mostly harmless. The Food and Drug Administration regulations in 21 CFR 1020 are used to strictly limit, for instance, television receivers to 0.5 milliroentgens per hour (mR/h) (0.13 µC/(kg·h) (at a distance of 5 cm from any external surface and as mentioned above, most CRT emissions fall well below this limit.
Flicker= are you are a moron? :LOL:
size- what you keep on your desk?
Last longer- that all depends... shitty monitors (like the HP M90 I used) die premature, others can last over 10 years... seen em at high school and college computer courses.
flat screens...
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor/CRT_Flat/LE19ISBBQ.asp
It's a true flat screen...
http://www.samsung.com/products/monitor/technicalinfo/b2c_monitor_dynaflat_flat.htm
instant on- um... I never turn my crt off.. energy saving modes++
power-my viewsonic E771 draws 90 watts.. that's nothing.
your pc draws way more power than your display...

You do need to adjust geometry on lcds, it just does it for you.

You sure love to grasp at straws don't you?
The fact you said crts flicker is hilarious since there's a thing called refresh rate and you just set it to 75 hz or over and say bye bye to flicker and even funnier is this radiation bullshit you always say while proving nothing ( classic anova...)
The only real arguments you have is sharpness and you know my views on that.
Screendoor effect= no thanks
And there's that whole fixed display issue with lcds...
Say I got a 2007FP... with my 7800GT I would be forced to run at a non native res to play Oblivion, which is currently the game of choice for me, so the sharpess would turn into lack of sharpness and a crt would indubitably look better.
You say it wouldn't look that bad, well for any of your lcda rguments to work the panal has to be at the native res.. i.e perfect.
You can say it doesn't look that bad but as far as lcds go it's still below par.
Color IS a factor for me- I'm very sensitive to irregular colors and response time is also a factor for me since again, I'm sensitive to motion artifacts.
Scenes (from games or movie) aren't always well lit.
Say you're watching a movie, there is atleast a few scenes in low light in a movie and in gaming with rpg games as soon as you go into a typlical dungeon the lack of blacks being quite obvious.
And we're not talking a dungeon with zero lights, we're talkin a dungeon with torch lighting.

It's been observed that AA is less effective with lcds vs crts- more jaggies YAY.
You can also get crts with low (under .24) dotpitches and you don't pay for that with the screendoor effect.

The bottom line is that with a crt I get overall better quality since it can display dark scenes fine, can sync to multible res, is bright bright enough and has a better gamma curve so colors as better.
I'm willing to be exposed to a tiny ammount of radiaton which the food and drug administation says it perfectly safe as well as not have the ability to clutter up my desk with even more crap :D
I'd only ever get an lcd if all I did was surfed the net and checked email and the like.
With gaming the contrast is an issue as well as being limited to 1 resolution unless I want scaling issues.

When lcds and scale perfectly and can display deep blacks please call me ;)
Guden Oden said:
Of course any tech you simply declare to have less issues than another tech is going to have less issues, regardless of the actual issues.

CRTs have plenty of major issues:
* They draw huge amounts of power and hence produce enormous waste heat levels.
* They have big issues with geometry, uniformity and convergence.
* They irradiate the user with gamma rays, and immerse them in fluxing magnetic fields.
* Moire patterns are common, and inherently unavoidable.
* Analog interconnect is susceptible to interference and signal degradation, and analog output is typically less than stellar on most GFX cards, particulary at high pixel clocks.
* Pixel sharpness goes down as resolution goes up; inherently unavoidable.
* Picture quality noticeably degrades as analog components deteriorate over time.
* And, they're big and heavy.

I'm sure I could list more, but my feckin shoulder hurts liike a sonofabitch for no reason just by sitting here typing, I really don't know what to do. I could barely put on a shirt this morning.
See above.
I said less severe.
huge amounts of power is overblown, but I guess you need to exaggerate the problems of crts in order to validate your opinion on that nice lcd you bought right?
Big issues= small issues
See quote on radiation... looks I have proof it's not dangerous and you and anova managed to come up empty handed for proof... how predictable.
Moire can be reduced with controls should you have problems with it.
The monitor I use atm has no issues with moire and I looked since my monitor that died had moire problems.
analog output is perfectly fine, but thanks for being concerned.
I rather like that pixel sharpness goes down because around 800x600 it's way to friggen sharp.
Btw what you're talking about sounds more like a shitty ramdac on a graphis card... likely and old nvidia card ;)
Crts are bigger(deeper) and heavier but I had no problems taking my 19" HP up 13 steps, but I suppose not all of us have massive muscles like me.. oh wait, I forgot, I rarely work out and am in poor physical condition.
Silly me.
 
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radeonic2 said:
bla bla bla...I like to insult people....bla bla bla...I like to make up crap
None of your arguments have any validity at all. But you know what, it's just a display and it's not worth arguing over. You go ahead loving your CRTs, I'll stick with LCDs thank you.
 
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