David Kirk

[oyvind]

After reading the latest David Kirk Interview on hardwareaccelerated I got this bad feeling afterwards. I've been an Nvidia fan for a while now, after voodoo 1,2,3,5500, radeon and the GF3 and now GF4-4600. I've been longing for the NV30 for a long time, and when the 9700 came out, with outstanding performance, I thought: Great! Finally some competition, now NV can show the world how good they are, crushing the 9700 and regain the speed crown. But, back to the point: Lately, I've wanted the NV30 less for every week. There are two ways to the top, the first is to create the best product, and be proud of it, the second way is use your influence and talk down upon the competition, to make yourself look better, even though your product isn't better at all.
In general, the latter way to do things are more common when you know you haven't got a chance to beat the competition, which is the first way of doing things.
Davik Kirk is more and more moving towards the second way of operation and it makes me feel sick. He seems to be bashing ATI whenever he can and that's not the way to do it, IMO. He gives out hints and clues that the competition cannot do this or that and puts himeself in a much better light by doing so, even though these features he's talking about won't be necessary for maybe 2 product cycles later.
I know this is a common way of marketing, but I don't like it! It's a desperate measure I find pitiful.
But I really look forward to the NV30, it excites me a lot <hope>because then ATI can show the world their DDR2 9700 pro. </hope>
Because I don't want the NV30 anymore. Honest...


(I do not think ATI are angels, but I think they are better that NV in this matter and a man needs to have SOME GFX card! )

 

[Evildeus]

I think they are better that NV in this matter and a man needs to have SOME GFX card!

If you say so

For my part, i'm willing to see the response of Nvidia to Ati. Ati has done a great job, and perhaps Nvidia didn't see the come back... I want to see how much they manage to reconsider their position after each product to stay the leader

 

[Johnathan256]

For my part, i'm willing to see the response of Nvidia to Ati. Ati has done a great job, and perhaps Nvidia didn't see the come back... I want to see how much they manage to reconsider their position after each product to stay the leader.

For sure! The coming years are going to be very exciting for 3d graphics!
With Ati finally becoming a serious competitor, Nvidia will no longer be able to just speed up its current chip for the next product release( geforce3-gf3ti500). They will have to break out the big guns! Now with each new product we should see far more performance and features than in the past. Long live Nvidia and Ati!!!!

 

[PVR_Extremist]

Exciting?

I get more and more bored by the day.

Call it a "7 year gfx card itch" but I'm bored by the scene at the moment.

I guess its mainly fuelled IMO by the severe lack of quality, innovative games. I'm bored by FPS's (except UT2k3 Instagib ), and am not really looking forward to the next big thing(tm) in the form of Doom3.

Maybe I'm harder to please than I was in the past?

Decent 3D hardware may be coming out in the next 12 months but whats the point without some decent games?

 

[alexsok]

Well. then I guess there are no doubts:

A wider memory interface is one way to increase bandwidth, but there are other ways. As you mention, DDR2 is another way of building a higher throughput memory system. I think that DDR2 is going to be really exciting for the graphics community, since it brings the potential of more memory bandwidth per signal pin. This is a good trend, regardless of how many bits wide the datapath is!

We’ll move to 256bit when we feel that the cost and performance balance is right.

The guy talks like a marketing guy... god i hate when he does that!

 

[SteveG]

The guy talks like a marketing guy... god i hate when he does that!

Does he have a choice? Seriously. I guess you want him to say "a 256 bit bus is the ONLY way to get more bandwidth. We're basically idiots. NV30 will suck because we didn't see that a 256 bit bus was the only way to produce a high-performing chip. Go buy a Radeon 9700."

Bashing someone for supporting his own company's product is silly. If you make public comments regarding your company's products, you had better position it well against the competition, and claim it's the best thing since sliced bread. It would be moronic to do otherwise.

Anyway, nothing Kirk said was even remotely questionable or irrational. In the context of his position as an Nvidia employee, it all made sense to me.

 

[Reverend]

Any interview given out by any NVIDIA staff goes through PR. David is no exception - he will answer questions given to him and have to pass it on to folks like Brian Burke or Derek Perez, who may or may not advise David to edit his answers. C'est la vie.

We should just look forward to reviews instead of interviews.

 

[MrB]

Bit off topic sorry but Revered isn't VE3D's review of 9700 supposed to launch with the contest?

 

[Reverend]

Bit off topic sorry but Revered isn't VE3D's review of 9700 supposed to launch with the contest?

Coming soon.

 

[fbg1]

Any interview given out by any NVIDIA staff goes through PR. David is no exception - he will answer questions given to him and have to pass it on to folks like Brian Burke or Derek Perez, who may or may not advise David to edit his answers. C'est la vie.

Strange that even the Chief Scientist at Nvidia has to subjugate his words to the propaganda, er marketing department. You would think someone like Kirk has the knowledge, intelligence, and responsibility to be able answer press questions without any kind of censoring. Not a good sign for their corporate culture when Nvidia feels the need to do this.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Not a good sign for their corporate culture when Nvidia feels the need to do this.

Actullay, it's not as much a sign of the corporate culture, IMO, as it is a foreshadowing of his expectations of the NV30 product relative to the competition.

 

[T2k]

Any interview given out by any NVIDIA staff goes through PR. David is no exception - he will answer questions given to him and have to pass it on to folks like Brian Burke or Derek Perez, who may or may not advise David to edit his answers. C'est la vie.

Strange that even the Chief Scientist at Nvidia has to subjugate his words to the propaganda, er marketing department. You would think someone like Kirk has the knowledge, intelligence, and responsibility to be able answer press questions without any kind of censoring. Not a good sign for their corporate culture when Nvidia feels the need to do this.

I don't think it's strange - this is the way how it goes at big companies.

 

[Reverend]

Any interview given out by any NVIDIA staff goes through PR. David is no exception - he will answer questions given to him and have to pass it on to folks like Brian Burke or Derek Perez, who may or may not advise David to edit his answers. C'est la vie.

Strange that even the Chief Scientist at Nvidia has to subjugate his words to the propaganda, er marketing department. You would think someone like Kirk has the knowledge, intelligence, and responsibility to be able answer press questions without any kind of censoring. Not a good sign for their corporate culture when Nvidia feels the need to do this.

It was the same with Gary Tarolli when he was with 3dfx (when 3dfx was still around of course) - he had to go through Brian Burke (hey, ex-3dfx again!) as well.

It doesn't matter who you are at a company - as excited as anyone can be at a company about a product/something, regardless of their positions, you never know when you may blurt things out that isn't supposed to come out. That's what PR is for. It is a evil necessity.

As it is, when you read interviews involving David Kirk, what you read may not really be David Kirk talking. For that, you need to trade emails with him. And he needs to know he trusts you.

 

[Sharkfood]

There are two ways to the top, the first is to create the best product, and be proud of it, the second way is use your influence and talk down upon the competition, to make yourself look better, even though your product isn't better at all.
....
.....
Davik Kirk is more and more moving towards the second way of operation and it makes me feel sick.

Where have ya been for the past 5 years? Under a rock?

This has been NVIDIA's marketing angle since day one, dating as far back as the TNT (with colorful "the competitor has sucky 16 bit, even though ours has no chance in hell of ever providing playable framerates in 32 bit"), to the V5/GTS (NVidia FAQ: "Q: Does 3dfx's Voodoo5 produce better looking FSAA than the GTS? A: 3dfx's card sucks as it needs multiple chips, which burns power, generates heat, costs more than a ferrari F50 to build and generally will cause death of close relatives. The GTS leads the industry by providing antialiasing with a single chip, so forget whatever you heard since one is better than two." etc.etc.)

When the 8500 was released, instead of countering with the performance of the GF4, their answer was instead to design and distribute the Quakifier program to exploit a texture bug in Quake3. ATI countered a week or two later with the fix with no reduction in performance.

I don't necessarily agree with NVIDIA's marketing angle, but I can say it has worked wonderfully for them. People recommending the 8500 on forums are always rebutted by 7 or 8 NVIDIA fans pointing out QUACK websites and explaining the benchmarks for the card are false as ATI "cheats"... hell, it still happens today with the 9700 Pro, where any recommendation of this awesome card is countered (and leads to buyer hesitation) with how ATI benchmarks are "fake" and the hardware does not perform anything like the benchmarks suggest.

It's an effective and well financed angle and seems to work well for NVIDIA. I can't criticize the result, but can criticize the ethics behind them. As it has led to increased sales of NVIDIA hardware, it's likely a trend to be continued over time. I'm also glad other IHVs have never returned fire to nearly the same level.

 

[Megadrive1988]

With Ati finally becoming a serious competitor, Nvidia will no longer be able to just speed up its current chip for the next product release( geforce3-gf3ti500). They will have to break out the big guns! Now with each new product we should see far more performance and features than in the past. Long live Nvidia and Ati!!!!

Man, you must have read my mind
Exactly! Nvidia is not going to be able to just bring out a speed binned NV30 as their next product after NV30, ala GF3 March 2001 ==> GF3 Ti500 fall 2001! No sir! Nvidia is going to have to followup Nv30 with NV35 roughly 6 months later, there is no doubt in my mind. Unless ATI capitulates, which isn't going to happen. I want to see the old Nvidia of 1997-1999 back, when they were really HUNGRY.

If indeed Nv30 has a 128-bit bus, I'd expect NV35 to move to 256-bits. regardless of Nv35's specs however, it has got to be a 2003 product, not 2004, which it would be, if Nvidia keeps moving at the pace they have been from 2000-2002.

I hope ATI does REAL well this year with the R300 line. I hope it hurts Nvidia enough to light a fire under their collective ass! I don't buy most of David Kirk's remarks either. Fiercer competition = better performance/lower prices for us

 

[fbg1]

I don't think it's strange - this is the way how it goes at big companies.

It was the same with Gary Tarolli when he was with 3dfx (when 3dfx was still around of course) - he had to go through Brian Burke (hey, ex-3dfx again!) as well.

It doesn't matter who you are at a company - as excited as anyone can be at a company about a product/something, regardless of their positions, you never know when you may blurt things out that isn't supposed to come out. That's what PR is for. It is a evil necessity.

As it is, when you read interviews involving David Kirk, what you read may not really be David Kirk talking. For that, you need to trade emails with him. And he needs to know he trusts you.

What I meant was, doesn't David Kirk have the knowledge to know what to say and what not to say? If anything, shouldn't he and Jen be the ones telling the marketing censors what they can allow other people in the company to publicly say? How is it that the marketing people know more about what is appropriate to say publicly and what isn't than David Kirk does?

 

[Reverend]

Because there is usually such a company policy whereby ALL email interviews must go through PR. It's part of the "process", in case even folks like Jenson or David slip up.

Email interviews are very different from live interviews.

 

[Fuz]

It's an effective and well financed angle and seems to work well for NVIDIA. I can't criticize the result, but can criticize the ethics behind them. As it has led to increased sales of NVIDIA hardware, it's likely a trend to be continued over time. I'm also glad other IHVs have never returned fire to nearly the same level.

I agree.
I've said this before, and I will say it again. Imho, Nvidia have the best marketing crew in the industry, bar none. I am not saying that I like their methods, but the results speak for them selves.

As most of you know, *insert fav company* are not in the industry to make the best hardware, they are in the industry to make the most money. Having said that, of course there are certain individuals in these companies that are genuinely interested in advancing technology, but as a company, money comes first.

I know I am stating the obvious here, but some ppl seem to lose the plot a bit.

 

[Johnathan256]

Hey bud

Hey I just read your pm you sent me a while back (I'm still learning the site). Anyway you were right, rooting for the underdog is a good thing I guess, I just don't like for people to flame Nvidia for trying to go that extra mile with NV30.

On another note, is it possible to change you user name in the profile. I have been trying go for something more original but everytime I change it to something else, I can't log back on with the new handle and I am forced to use the old one. Any ideas?

 

[Snap]

I just don't like for people to flame Nvidia for trying to go that extra mile with NV30.

What extra mile is that? Until its announced you don't know if they are a mile ahead or a mile behind, all you have are a bunch of rumours. The interval between R300 and NV30 isn't because NVIDIA are going the extra mile, thats because they are pure, plain and simple, late.