Crunch, Pop, Spray, Crack, Ooze, and NEXT-GEN!

babcat

Regular
The Next-Gen or now current generation of video games allow developers to do things that were previously impossible or impractical in video games. One of the things that have been made possible by the increased specifications and sheer power of the PS3 and 360 is the ability to produce realistic violence and gore. As someone who values realism this is something I'm tremendously looking forward to.

For example, in previous generations violence in video games did not result in realistic damage. However, this current generation of hardware allows very realistic, very detailed, and very visual damage to human or non-human body parts.

I would like to provide some examples of what this generation of video game console hardware could provide.

Example 1 - If someone is hit by a sword it can slice their cloth, then their flesh, and rip into their internal organs. Video games can show the blood oozing out, the tears in the skin, and the various organs spilling out onto the floor.

Example 2 - If someone is thrown against a wall their bones can break. Visually it is now possible to see them protruding from the skin, massive bruises forming, and of course we can hear the snapping and popping of their bones.

Example 3 - If someone is punched in a certain part of the body we can see site specific damage. For example, if a character shoots someone in the nose from a side angle we can see it blown off but the rest of the face remaining in tact.

Example 4 - If someone's skin is removed in a game by throwing someone in acid we can see the musculature, tendons, and skeleton that was below it.

Example 5 - If someone is stabbed, shot, or impaled by an object we can see a realistic flood or spray of blood depending on where the person was impacted.

Basically, I hope the days of games that strive for any sense of realism having non-realistic violence are over with. I am hoping that characters will be modeled so that other characters can do realistic damage to every part of their body.

As an example, in racing games I would like for the cars to be able to lose control and slide into a huge crowd of on-lookers causing massive damage. Why do I want this? Because it's something that could happen in real life! It's part of REALISM.

Also, in fantasy stories I hope that super powerful entities or characters do *real* and *accurate* damage when they attack other characters.

Basically, I realize every game developer has the right to develop their games how they see fit. However, as a consumer I will want to purchase and/or rent games that are realistic in as many ways as possible and one very important aspect of realism is realistic violence.

Also, I hope game developers don't allow the draconian censor police to dictate what they put into their games. In my opinion, I just wish game developers would put the following message on every game that's not specifically targetted for young children:

"This game may contain vividly realistic violence, gore, and mature adult content. If you purchase this game please be prepared for the possibility it will contain content beyond the MATURE rating. We are artists and story tellers and have a right to make this game how we see fit and to include whatever content we see fit. If you want more precise information please go online and do a little research for yourself. Also, it's not our job to keep this game away from your kids or other minors. If you purchase it or have it in your house please expect for it to have inappropriate content. Because we refuse to limit our creativity in order to satisfy anyone who supports censorship."

I'm hoping this generation of games will have realistic violence.
 
Outside of asking why you'd want such things... I don't see your request falling in line with even the mature 18+ rating that the ESRB gives out. That type of stuff you're asking for is sort of twisted.

GTA is probably getting pretty close to the limit of Mature rating -- a game like you're asking for is going to get an AO no doubt. Violence in games so far has been cartoon-y at best -- GTA violence? That's merely as bad as what's on TV for 8-15 year olds. Games are given slightly more strict guidelines because you can control what's going on it (which makes people think there would be a more direct influence)... a game that all of a sudden gets as "realistic" as Saw, or Hostel, or any of those other gratuitous horror movies would never hit a store shelf (even if the whole game wasn't about that).

On some level I can understand wanting to allow such things to be created (freedom of speech and all that), but I don't see why anyone would actually _want_ to experience it.

I think you'll find the issue is more with publishers (wanting a larger target audience -- can't realistically sell AO games) and ESRB.
 
GTA is probably getting pretty close to the limit of Mature rating -- a game like you're asking for is going to get an AO no doubt. Violence in games so far has been cartoon-y at best -- GTA violence? That's merely as bad as what's on TV for 8-15 year olds.

I'd say that some scenes in both GoW games:) (Gears and God of War) include much more brutal violence than GTA and I'm personally glad to have that. Actually there are many more games with more brutal violence than GTA. I'm personally tired of the mistreatment of games compared to movies in this context, I do understand the reasons behind it, but hopefully some day I as a adult will be able to enjoy games without unnecessary restrictions or censorship.
 
I'd say that some scenes in both GoW games:) (Gears and God of War) include much more brutal violence than GTA and I'm personally glad to have that. Actually there are many more games with more brutal violence than GTA. I'm personally tired of the mistreatment of games compared to movies in this context, I do understand the reasons behind it, but hopefully some day I as a adult will be able to enjoy games without unnecessary restrictions or censorship.

Yeah, but even those two games are stylized and more cartoonish than realistic... God of War especially. Gears is pretty nasty, but the gibs produced when chopping someone up are B horror movie at best, rivaling Evil Dead more than Hostel (which is fine with me!). I don't think we'll be seeing games with what babcat is really after -- he seems to want games with realistic violence, not parodied/cartoonish stuff we have today. That's fine and I don't necessarily disagree with it, I don't see it happening though.

I just used GTA because it's all I could think of, your examples were better actually -- I don't think this PS3/360 generation is going to all of a sudden get away with more "realistic" violence just because they can display it, if anything I think it'll be the opposite. I don't think actual realistic violence is going to sit well with those in control. Gears is pretty much the perfect example of what I think is more or less the limit of what is arguably acceptable at this point -- it's far from realistic, but it is gory -- Gears of War type violence the game industry can get away with. I don't think we could get away with violence like that seen in Hostel or Saw1/2/3 or any other recent ultra disgusting horror movie of late especially if the game is just nasty to be nasty (like those movies) -- if the game somehow managed to pull of an experience with some depth then they might be able to get away with it (especially if it was a cutscene where this realistic violence happened). Campy B movie gore is fine, realistic is generally not.

Don't get me wrong, I may not really like _really_ realistic violence in most cases, but I don't have anything against it existing in games or movies (not like I have to play every game). My issue is just that I don't see publishers and ESRB actually green-lighting what I think Babcat really wants... who knows though! Maybe Mortal Kombat X or whatever the next gen MK will be called will satisfy.
 
I want every game to have as much realistic violence as possible.

For example, take a racing game. The object of the game is not to run over people. But I think you should be able to run them over and then see the grusome results of your actions.

Also, take Grand Theft Auto. I hope the Grand Theft Auto 4 will have very, very realistic violence. It's a game about the most violent people on the planet. Therefore, it should have very realistic violence.

Quite frankly, unless you are targetting kiddies I think every game should just go ahead and be rated AO.
 
I'd rather see realistic game play damage than realistic graphical damage, maybe in tekken, keep working your opponents legs and and see them get progressively slower or unsteady.

It would be cool to see something in say elder scrolls (first person rpg) where if you shoot an arrow in some ones eye they swing and miss due to there depth perception being effected, but maybe thats asking a wee bit too much.

As for seeing blood spurting from wounds, is that even realistic?
 
When violence peaks at the unrestrained level of realism that it's very much capable of reaching, it's fodder for politicians to say "this is whats wrong with video games." Unfortunately other forms of media abide by a gross double standard. It's acceptable for Uma Thurman to decapitate people for a solid 25 minutes straight, but once a car gets stolen in GTA or a bystander get's run down, people are quick to shun the name of gaming. I think a lot of developers realize this too and are quick to keep their games' levels of violence in moderation.
 
As both a 3D artist and a gamer I strongly oppose this idea. I fail to see any values in the realistic depiction of violence. I kinda think it's a pervert thing to watch, and I'm probably not the only person who would be repulsed by such imagery in anything from games to movies. I'd also expect most publishers to

Gears is, by the way, quite stylized even with the chainsaw stuff. It walks a very fine line and even so it was reportedly quite hard to get this through Microsoft.
 
I will certainly be repulsed by next-gen games that have people encountering situations that would cause major damage, but then nothing happening graphically to show that damage.

For example, if someone is hit by a huge sword they should be sliced in two or at least pierced enough so blood gushes out appropriately. If someone is hit by a large apparently sharp sword if they are not severely cut it makes the game loose any sense of realism it could have had.

By the way, I wish the gaming community would unite together and stand up to those who would want to censor video games! If we all united together we could collectively tell them to go shove their censorship up their rear ends!

For example, in Gears of War you should be able to cut someone in half with the chainsaw and see the individual organs spilling out. Stylized violence in a game that is even trying to be realistic is ridiculous in my opinion. If anyone is opposed to violence in a game where you have weapons fighting monsters from deep beneath the Earth then they are simply being ridiculous.

Also, I'm just curious. Does the head-stomp in Gears of War allow you to see any brain matter?
 
For example, in Gears of War you should be able to cut someone in half with the chainsaw and see the individual organs spilling out.

But they do!!!! -part of it as a bloody mist, part of it in chunks.

- And the chunks and blood splatter onto the inside of your TV screen.

That's what makes the extra risk of sneaking up on a bad boy and cutting him down worthwhile. It the single most hilarious thing in the game.

Second being in co-op games when you revive your buddy by padding him on the shoulder, saying "Walk it off".

Cheers
 
Redwood Falls is what you need to keep an eye on, at least as an example of the sort of tech you're looking for.

http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/2006/02/07/h-103_48419_br0004.jpg.jpg

http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/2006/02/07/h-103_48419_br0003.jpg.jpg

GameSpot said:
During the Play UK 2006 video game seminar hosted by the United Kingdom Embassy in Tokyo, Kuju Entertainment creative director Tancred Dyke-Wells revealed that his company is working on Redwood Falls, a first-person shooter for the PlayStation 3.

Kuju showed off a tech demo of Redwood Falls during his presentation. According to a report by Famitsu.com, the gory sampling showed a man getting shot repeatedly by gunfire. The man's flesh would wear away, revealing bones and other innards behind open wounds. But the man didn't keel over and die after all the injected lead; instead, his body slowly healed until he was fully recovered.

Wells told Famitsu.com that the human model could have been created even more realistically so that even internal organs could be blown away. However, he held back from doing so this time around, since the main focus of the tech demo was to show off Kuju's development prowess.

According to Wells, Redwood Falls will feature plenty of regenerating enemies. The actual game will feature tougher enemies that can heal themselves and transform into more powerful forms and can even manipulate their bones and use them as weapons.

Kuju is currently looking for a publisher for Redwood Falls. No further information was given about the game.

Source

Internal organs, flesh wounds etc. Obviously the premise of the rest of the game isn't realistic, but still..
 
This thread is too sick for me I guess.

Sorry if it wasn't clear, I certainly agree with you. GOW is over-the-top violent in places, so violent as to be completely unrealistic.

Games like Counter-Strike and Ghorst Recon have a deeper impact on kids/people I think because it's much closer to what you see on the news.

Cheers
 
I agree with Laa-Yosh. When I read all that about flesh being torn apart, organs sawed in half, whatever you way want... it just made me a little sick to my stomach. What I had eaten might have contributed to that somewhat, but overall I just have no interest in seeing a bunch of realistic violence. Gears' chainsaw does make for tons of laughter and yelling the first couple times somebody sees it, though. But to realistic violence: just say no. There are far more important things to focus on. Such as AI that doesn't suck, for example.
 
A plethora of violence doesn't necessarily add to the value of the game. Might I remind you all of SoF2? The premise of SoF2 sounded too good to be true. Realistic setting, real world weapons, terrorists we could actually somewhat identify with and to top it off probably 200 zones on the human body that could be severed in the most gruesome of ways. But upon release it was apparent the devs spent way too much time focusing on shock value of the game, and not enough on other elements of the game. Important elements. Also I can remember a few games worthy of my saying they were so chock full of senseless violence, they were borderline poster children for everything a parent and politician is meant to hate and point out as an example of the degradation of gaming. Such as the original Postal. While it is satisfying some really hurt an e-opponent in a video game sometimes, we also have the think of it from the human angle, and in terms of impressionable minds playing copycat.
 
That Redwood Falls game looks awesome.

That is the kind of realism I'm talking about! :)

However, I understand if *every* game can't take it quite that far if there are for example hundreds of characters on the screen at one time. But I do hope that if someone is stabbed blood will spray out, if someone is sliced by a sword blood will come out.
 
"realistic violence" is a sure way to get speciality groups more against violence in videogames, firing up parents and wanting to enforce nationwide bans. Even with "M" rated games such as gears, the developers will aim to be over the top and imaginative to an extent that parents might not mind too much if little Timmy is playing it.

Going too realistic for a developer can have them narrowing their potential customer pool to a point where it's not profitable. Aside from the developer, the Publisher and console maker must approve the content. It's an uphill battle.

Would I like to see such in games? Sure, why not but the game better be good.
 
In my opinion the game developers, publishers, and gamers need to unite together to fight against anyone that would try to censor a game due to violence.

If certain anti-freedom and anti-liberty individuals or groups don't like the violence or other adult content too bad! I believe in just slapping a label on the game and saying that it's insanely violent, if you don't like it too bad, and keeping it away from kids is the job of parents and no one else.

I'm hoping that as future generations of people are born they will realize the stupidness of censorship.
 
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