Costs of running game studios in UK *rename

[green.pixel]

http://www.vg247.com/2011/03/09/report-sony-cans-streamlines-projects-at-uk-studios/

Studios affected include Eyepet and SingStar dev Studio London, Wipeout developer Studio Liverpool and Evolution Studios, who are set to release Motorstorm Apocalypse in the UK this week.

“It has been decided that production on a small number of projects within London Studio, Studio Liverpool, and Evolution Studios will be streamlined or closed due to a portfolio review and project prioritisation,” Sony said in a statement.

“This decision was made following an internal review of all games and it was deemed that with the incredibly strong list of exclusive first party titles coming up both this year and in the near future, resource should be reallocated to enhance those projects closer to completion.”

It added further: “The affected first party studios have been and will continue to be vital assets within the WWS family, and have a history of producing genre defining games such as MotorStorm, WipEout, SingStar and EyePet. This decision will have no impact on the role that our first party studios will play in the future of all PlayStation platforms.”

SCEE wouldn’t comment further on the matter.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=26400426&postcount=157

20 or so guys have gone from Evolution. No word from Liverpool but London is meant to be hit the hardest, Singstar Team seem to be out completely.

Does anyone know how is Liverpool affected? They've been restructered last year and reportedly half of the staff was laid off.

 

[eastmen]

sad to hear but from what i can see the sony first party /second party titles like resistance and killzone aren't really doing that well.

 

[Arwin]

sad to hear but from what i can see the sony first party /second party titles like resistance and killzone aren't really doing that well.

Resitance is a third party (Insomniac) studio in the U.S., and Killzone is Guerilla Games in The Netherlands. So this isn't about either of those. These are all studios in the U.K.

Apparently some guys from Evolution left, and if so though Motorstorm is one of my favorite series of this generation, I guess I can understand why - Motorstorm 2 has been underperforming, and there's a good chance that outside of Sony's 3D push, MS3 may do less than stellar as well considering the fate of titles like Blur and Split Second. Perhaps even the reason that MS3 was allowed to be finished in the first place was because it works so well in 3D, who knows. I really do hope that the title does better this time though, and that it even brings back some people to play MS2, because both games are excellent.

As for the rest, regarding SingStar you could expect the same thing - SingStar has been moving towards supporting different stuff like Move for dancing, guitar peripheral etc, but the music genre really looks close to dead at the moment and will support little more than Rockstar 3, and SingStar itself is such a well developed and well-rounded product now, it only needs a few people to bring in new songs.

What I'm hoping though is that most of the staff on these teams will now be able to move towards supporting platforms, who knows maybe bring LiveArea for NGP also to the PS3, stuff like that, as well as make NGP the best it can be, maybe more Move stuff as well. I'm guessing that not too many people will leave, because there is a lot of work to do.

It will be interesting to hear what kind of projects have been let go in favor of what other projects. Most would probably assume that NGP stuff gets priority now, and perhaps Sony considers the current first party line-up almost too crowded in the light of economic circumstances, so that an effort will be made to make current advanced projects the best they can be so they can be long-running franchises that perhaps also integrate with NGP counterparts, and any new projects for PS3 may be put on hold, or canned in favor of PS4 work, I don't know. Some people may also leave in favor of others who have more experience with handheld platforms?

Well, already speculating way more than I was planning to - let's just wait and see.

 

[joker454]

Isn't the UK just hurting all around regarding game studios, because there are basically zero tax/business perks to running a studio there?

 

[BoardBonobo]

Isn't the UK just hurting all around regarding game studios, because there are basically zero tax/business perks to running a studio there?

Quite right. Once again, our illustrious government, ignored all the visible clues as to how profitable the games industry can, how incredibly talented and creative UK studios seem to be, and how much the industry was hurting over here compared to other countries where tax perks etc are in affect.

Even Peter Molyneux's (OBE!) pleading for some sort of reform fell on deaf ears. So the industry got screwed into lower margins and less profitability in the UK.

It was only a matter of time before studios either fold or move to a better climate.

 

[Cyan]

Quite right. Once again, our illustrious government, ignored all the visible clues as to how profitable the games industry can, how incredibly talented and creative UK studios seem to be, and how much the industry was hurting over here compared to other countries where tax perks etc are in affect.

Even Peter Molyneux's (OBE!) pleading for some sort of reform fell on deaf ears. So the industry got screwed into lower margins and less profitability in the UK.

It was only a matter of time before studios either fold or move to a better climate.

It sucks pretty bad, and maybe one of the reasons why such talented developers like Bizarre Creations had to close its doors. If it were another government or a different climate, more friendly towards games developing studios, some developers might have survived or wouldn't need to move to a different place.

Bizarre Creations legacy is still influencing other developers, but sadly they aren't creating games anymore.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/bizarre_an_inspiration_for_shift_2_dev.html?

By the way, whatever (or most) Molyneux has to say, I don't listen to him. He is a real liar.

 

[BoardBonobo]

It sucks pretty bad, and maybe one of the reasons why such talented developers like Bizarre Creations had to close its doors. If it were another government or a different climate, more friendly towards games developing studios, some developers might have survived or wouldn't need to move to a different place.

Bizarre Creations legacy is still influencing other developers, but sadly they aren't creating games anymore.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/bizarre_an_inspiration_for_shift_2_dev.html?

By the way, whatever (or most) Molyneux has to say, I don't listen to him. He is a real liar.

It does suck big time. It's yet another example of governments blindness to progress, it stretches all the way back to Charles Babbage and his Difference engine, Lyons and the LEO1 etc.

As for Mr Molyneux's extended reality comments... He's really a great advocate of the UK games industry, he just likes to add a couple of layers of gloss when talking about his games!!

 

[AlphaWolf]

As for Mr Molyneux's extended reality comments... He's really a great advocate of the UK games industry, he just likes to add a couple of layers of gloss when talking about his games!!

Infamous videogame over-promiser Peter Molyneux wants to apologize for making game features up on the spot to stop game journalists from falling asleep.

It's not like he doesn't know it.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

As for Mr Molyneux's extended reality comments... He's really a great advocate of the UK games industry, he just likes to add a couple of layers of gloss when talking about his games!!

Heh, he's always been like that though. Anyone that's been gaming on PC since the 90's knows to take everything he says with a grain of salt. Heck remember the Superhero game Bullfrog was working on? Fully destructable cityscape. Your hero would be able to rip a skyscraper off its foundations to use as a weapon, etc.? All back in the mid-90s.

But out of his overactive imagination have also come some of the greatest games ever made.

Regards,
SB

 

[AntShaw]

If any studio needs government subsidies to stay in business, they deserve to fail.

 

[ShadowRunner]

Thats not the point, projects may be moved elsewhere if it is much cheeper to do so. A studio may be perfectly viable and financially stable in uk, but that doesnt mean more money could be made elsewhere. The government should be taking steps to keep successful buisnesses in the uk, at the moment it puts a studio at a dissadvantage staying here so why bother.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

If any studio needs government subsidies to stay in business, they deserve to fail.

Eh? There's a huge difference between unreasonable taxation making it impossible to compete with other companies and the governement giving you money from taxpayers who don't wish to subsidize your company.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Eh? There's a huge difference between unreasonable taxation making it impossible to compete with other companies...

The problem here is that the tax situation isn't unreasonable, as the game developers are the taxed the same as every other business. The problem is "unfair advantages" from other countries. That creates an artificial imbalance, the same as subsidizing industries. If the governments butted out, everyone would be in the same place and you wouldn't get migrations. You'd just get local companies developing from local talent based on their ability to make a product that sells.

This is going into RSPCA territory though.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

The problem here is that the tax situation isn't unreasonable, as the game developers are the taxed the same as every other business. The problem is "unfair advantages" from other countries. That creates an artificial imbalance, the same as subsidizing industries. If the governments butted out, everyone would be in the same place and you wouldn't get migrations. You'd just get local companies developing from local talent based on their ability to make a product that sells.

This is going into RSPCA territory though.

Aye, I'll just say one last thing. I agree that different levels of taxation cause problems with competition. And I wouldn't say those are "unfair advantages." If X country decides to tax heavily while Y country doesn't that just reflects each countries differing ideas concerning government involvement in everyday people's lives. If they tax heavily they should be aware of how it's going to impact their own industries in a global market. That is still quite different from a subsidy which is taking taxpayer dollars and just giving it to some entity.

But then I don't believe corporations should be taxed in the first place. Taxing corporations is just the governements way to hide the fact that they are taxing your everyday citizens more than they realize. After all, people might have a problem if they knew 70-90% of their income was going towards various taxes either directly (what they know about) or indirectly.

Regards,
SB

 

[jonabbey]

I really do hope that the title does better this time though, and that it even brings back some people to play MS2, because both games are excellent.

Hm, I could be into playing some MS2 online. I've been doing more Hot Pursuit online recently, though.

 

[ShadowRunner]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12829815

Looks like the uk government has increased tax relief for the games industry, though maybe not far enough to spur growth.

 

[Nesh]

But then I don't believe corporations should be taxed in the first place. Taxing corporations is just the governements way to hide the fact that they are taxing your everyday citizens more than they realize. After all, people might have a problem if they knew 70-90% of their income was going towards various taxes either directly (what they know about) or indirectly.

Regards,
SB

Are you referring to VAT or direct corporate tax?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Are you referring to VAT or direct corporate tax?

Both. All taxes are passed on to the consumer. At least VAT allows the consumer to know how much of his money is being taken by the gov't. Corporate taxes are completely hidden from the consumer in general and is compounded the more suppliers that are required to make any given product. It also allows you to indirectly tax people in other countries. Well, assuming your level of taxation doesn't put corporations in your country out of business.

Regards,
SB

 

[AlphaWolf]

Both. All taxes are passed on to the consumer. At least VAT allows the consumer to know how much of his money is being taken by the gov't. Corporate taxes are completely hidden from the consumer in general and is compounded the more suppliers that are required to make any given product. It also allows you to indirectly tax people in other countries. Well, assuming your level of taxation doesn't put corporations in your country out of business.

Regards,
SB

Being hidden doesn't mean they are more oppressive.

 

[KongRudi]

If any studio needs government subsidies to stay in business, they deserve to fail.

Unfortunately China can't subsidise the entire world.
So european goverments tax their corporations and citizens much more than you get taxed in Maryland, wich makes it harder for them to compete on the international market than a company based in Maryland. :-/

It's not like they're asking the state for money or direct subsidation.

Several game-studio's have said that if the british goverment want to have a healthy game-industry there, they need to concider change the rules and regulations they've placed on the industry in order for them to to be able to compete better in the international market again somehow.

Sony has alot of great studios in England making good games.
I myself bought LBP, Wipeout, Motorstorm, Singstar, Buzz, Heavenly Sword, Lemmings, this generation. Didn't get TV Superstars, The Shoot, or Eyepet.
Wich is the british games I recall right now. :-/

The consumer market in Britain have grown, but the various publishers are still finding it harder and harder to invest in the british developers compared to foreign studios, because they need to sell more copies in order to break even or make profit, since UK is getting a more expensive place to work. :-/