Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19) (SARS-CoV-2) [2020]

Wrong it's not just the virus it has to be imbedded in a medium eg: a water droplet, If the weave of the mask was the same scale as a goal net
the the water droplet would be a block 3 vw golfs across, 3 golf's deep and 3 golf's high ie: 9 golfs
That's wrong. With or without a mask, if you are in the same, non-ventilated room, chance of your contracting virus is the same and you need to be there for 3h+. I would link a video to a proper virologist saying this, but I don't have time to look for it now.
Put it another way, do you see a significant drop in Flu infections since we started wearing masks? Would you expect it to be lower due to that?
People are dying all the time, media is deliberately manipulating data to scare us. But I will not go into conspiracy theories here as media would do that anyway, regardless of alternative reasons.
 
That's wrong. With or without a mask, if you are in the same, non-ventilated room, chance of your contracting virus is the same and you need to be there for 3h+.
I think that's probably true if there's poor airflow, and I'm not convinced by the notion 'open you window for a few minutes once in a while to stop the spread.' Without a clear airflow of old air out, fresh air in, particles are going to linger, and I'd even consider that conflicting air currents from fresh air + wind outside + differences in temperature would result in microscopic droplets staying airborne longer than in still air in a passive setting like a living room.

However, mask wearing in shorter periods like a visit to the shops will reduce viral presence in the air from any infected because of the interrupted airflow. It's not even about having holes smaller than the droplets, but turbulences caused from the interrupted airflow plus static attraction to fibres etc. It's the difference between a water gun shooting a laminar flow or just turbulent water.

As for real science showing one way or another, I doubt there's much meaningful out there (if there is, I'm sure Mariner will have it!). I've seen a whole bunch of poorly considered experiments but mostly it's data analysis in scenarios with many variables at play - "we see a clear 30% r4eduction i virus spread where masks are worn; oh by the way they also were social distancing and working from home and not going so much and limiting group sizes". But logically, it can't make things worse and so will make things better in anything from 99% to 0.00001% ;)

Another consideration is how infectious omicron is outside. If there are 50x the virions ejected, wouldn't that result in a significant cloud? If someone with Omicron runs past you in the park breathing heavily, can you trust the viral cloud will disperse enough to not infect you, or are you at as much risk as talking face to face with someone with Delta for 10 minutes at 2 metres distance?

In real terms, the situation is too complex to actually inform the masses, so massive generalisations need to be made to make workable rules.

Put it another way, do you see a significant drop in Flu infections since we started wearing masks? Would you expect it to be lower due to that?
Yes and yes, but the mask wearing isn't in isolation. There have been lockdowns etc., so it's not really possible to separate the impact of the masks from all the other measures in place.
Last year was record low numbers, right?
This year no one is masking and Flu season is normal to higher numbers.
But with the added issue that because of less disease exposure the past two years, people are less resistant to these background diseases. Had people not been wearing masks, we'd have increased Covid spread but also more active resistance. Good luck trying to quantify the pros and cons from that! ;)
 
P.S. Masks work:
Good thread, but it doesn't actually provide proof masks work. It points out the science used to prove they make a difference is flawed and that the reliance of 'proof they make a difference' to choose to wear masks is daft when the costs are fairly minimal. Although it can be argued that the costs aren't non-existent as the author suggests - mask wearing has numerous downsides. The scientific choice would weigh the measured benefit of mask wearing, which we don't know, against the measured costs of comfort, communication issues, psychological fallout from not seeing full faces, associated skin disorders (eg acne), etc. from mask wearing, which are completely unquantifiable - that is, 'should we be wearing masks?' isn't a question science can answer.
 
It's one of those things were, clearly tissue and paper towels are clearly not waterproof or capable of separating liquids like a water proof barrier. But drains are regularly clogged by these things even though they aren't waterproof for instance.

We tend to be all or nothing, but the reality is often a spectrum. It's true, tissue paper will do nothing against a ton of virus, but positioned well can clog a drain. Which might be the analogy that some folks are having a harder time wrapping their heads around.

But there are actual substances that are that dangerous, like organic mercury, where wearing teh wrong types of gloves will go through that and directly into your blood stream, GG. But I don't think virus are quite like that.
 
Last year was record low numbers, right?
This year no one is masking and Flu season is normal to higher numbers.

Obviously it is not only masks in play there. International travel was pretty much halted 2020Q2-2021Q2 in comparison to previous standard, and with all the quarantining and remote working the flu could not get air under its wings to spread. Before this latest omicron wave, increase in contacts between people, both domestic and internationally, gave the flu the chance to start its usual tour.
 
Good thread, but it doesn't actually provide proof masks work. It points out the science used to prove they make a difference is flawed and that the reliance of 'proof they make a difference' to choose to wear masks is daft when the costs are fairly minimal. Although it can be argued that the costs aren't non-existent as the author suggests - mask wearing has numerous downsides. The scientific choice would weigh the measured benefit of mask wearing, which we don't know, against the measured costs of comfort, communication issues, psychological fallout from not seeing full faces, associated skin disorders (eg acne), etc. from mask wearing, which are completely unquantifiable - that is, 'should we be wearing masks?' isn't a question science can answer.

If you look towards the end of the thread (post 80-something), you'll see that there are links to a number of recent studies which do a pretty good job of showing efficacy, such as the following one (thread discussing the contents of said paper):


Various other studies showing how mask mandates in schools reduced risk of infection in schools greatly. Not RCTs, obviously, but pretty compelling evidence.

I really don't get the continuing pushback against masking, especially during surges in the pandemic such as we're seeing now. We know it is an airborne pathogen. There is plenty of evidence that air filtration devices work in reducing risk of infection. What could be more obvious than filtering the air as you breathe in and out to reduce the risk of infection?

For all the handwringing about psychological issues potentially caused by mask-wearing, I've yet to see any proper evidence (or even shaky evidence) that this is a real thing. Any links to that sort of thing?

Mask-wearing is tough for deaf/hearing-impaired people who rely on lip reading to some level, but it really isn't anything other than a minor inconvenience apart from that. I've got two young children who haven't batted an eyelid over it throughout the pandemic (though they haven't worn them masks themselves very often/at all depending on age). If anything, they think it's funny and a game when we put them on. I always describe it as my funny mask.
 
P.S. Masks work:


Oh, and better quality masks work better!

thanks. a nice read. but someone gotta turns that into a meme or a very short tweet to make the good information spread easier. currently it is waaaaaaaaaay too long.

media is deliberately manipulating data to scare us. But I will not go into conspiracy theories here as media would do that anyway, regardless of alternative reasons.

in Indonesia it's the opposite. the data manipulation was to make things seem less serious than the reality. Although this is just my personal hypothesis from what the news and government reports vs the insider info i got from hospitals and friends in heavy covid area, and the habit of Indonesia government that love to "make issue disappear" rather than "solving the issue" since i was a kid.
 
You just have

Then why media news is always showing 90% of bad news? Because bad news sells ... but you can think what you want.

Question: why social media giants are banning renowned scientists from Linked-in, Twitter or remove videos from Youtube?
I will leave one name here: Robert Malone, MD, but there are more bans like that.
 
Then why media news is always showing 90% of bad news? Because bad news sells ... but you can think what you want.
That's why you decided to think anything you want?

Question: why social media giants are banning renowned scientists from Linked-in, Twitter or remove videos from Youtube?
I will leave one name here: Robert Malone, MD, but there are more bans like that.

Because he is deadly misleading, duh.
 
That's why you decided to think anything you want?



Because he is deadly misleading, duh.

So the freedom of speech does not apply to anyone who have other opinion than mainstream? People should decide if he or anyone else is right or wrong. Scientific data and studies should, but who will pay for them?

BTW I'm vaccinated with 2 doses, but I know enough people who didn't vaccinate, good doctors and nurses too. They had their reasons, mainly adverse effects of vaccines themselves.

 
This line of discussion, who decides what information should and shouldn't be heard, is a topic for the RSPCA forum, not this one.
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some considerations around lock down has to do with staff shortages/burnout at hospitals. I’m fairly sure in Ontario we have the building capacity and maybe even the equipment to house a lot of people, most of our hospital wing beds are closed, we just have no staff to run it. Hence we keep locking down.
 
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