Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19) (SARS-CoV-2) [2020]

Stupid question, slightly OT but it also sort of fits. Is a suit required for a funeral? My mom is making me go to one on Friday as I'm her only child that can attend, her sister's husband passed away a few days ago.

Nice guy, really liked him. He was 70 and they say, "his body just sort of fell apart!", which I'm starting to think is code for they had Covid but don't want to say it since they're anti-vax/Trump supporters. :|

I haven't been to a funeral in at least 4-5 years, this one I'm worried about people getting mad at me for wearing a mask to it which sort of adds a lot of bonus fun...but I really do love one of my cousins who's father passed and he's always looked out for my mom so I figure I'm duty/honor bound to attend. Plus my mommy told me I have to. (Yeah, I'm 55 and my mommy still can tell me what to do. :oops: )

Chrissy has offered to come with so I won't be the only masked one there, but I'd rather she not since she's immuno compromised. :(

Sorry for the OT, needed a quick rant and this spot seems isolated enough that no one in my real life will see it. Thanks for always being here for me to babble to, it helps tremendously! :love:

Gonna go check my closet for funeral wardrobe, I don't think I even have dress pants and a decent button down...let alone shoes that aren't sneakers!
 
If you're over 50 then funerals are going to become a thing in your life, so you need some smart trousers (pants I think you call them) and a smart shirt. Maybe a waistcoat too (vest?) because that's always hot when you take you wife on date night. Right?

As for the mask, wear it. It may upset people but if they are anti-vaxx then you need to look after yourself as well as them. We don't want to be reading about your funeral here in a month or two.
 
I used to know funerals inside out. I lost 5 great aunts, 2 grandmas, and a grandpa between the ages of 12-19. Funerals used to be sort of a fun family get together, so long as the person who died was old and led a good life and such. I really went to a whole lot more funerals when I was younger. Not sure if I have smart pants or not, that's what I'm gonna go look for next. (My closet is a bit of a terrible mess, I don't go out much so I just wear the same t-shirt/jeans a lot.)

Decided definitely on the masks, cases are spiking bad in my area and Omicron has officially made it to the US.
 
Stupid question, slightly OT but it also sort of fits. Is a suit required for a funeral? My mom is making me go to one on Friday as I'm her only child that can attend, her sister's husband passed away a few days ago.

Nice guy, really liked him. He was 70 and they say, "his body just sort of fell apart!", which I'm starting to think is code for they had Covid but don't want to say it since they're anti-vax/Trump supporters. :|

I haven't been to a funeral in at least 4-5 years, this one I'm worried about people getting mad at me for wearing a mask to it which sort of adds a lot of bonus fun...but I really do love one of my cousins who's father passed and he's always looked out for my mom so I figure I'm duty/honor bound to attend. Plus my mommy told me I have to. (Yeah, I'm 55 and my mommy still can tell me what to do. :oops: )

Chrissy has offered to come with so I won't be the only masked one there, but I'd rather she not since she's immuno compromised. :(

Sorry for the OT, needed a quick rant and this spot seems isolated enough that no one in my real life will see it. Thanks for always being here for me to babble to, it helps tremendously! :love:

Gonna go check my closet for funeral wardrobe, I don't think I even have dress pants and a decent button down...let alone shoes that aren't sneakers!

Jeans aren't uncommon at my family's funerals. I'd say you're fine in dark khakis and a dress shirt and tie. Black sneakers are much less noticeable if you don't have dress shoes.
If you are part of the ceremony you might want to step it up as you will have more eyes on you. I seem to be the goto pallbearer in my family so I wear a suit
 
I used to be a pall bearer all the time, now I'm just background so it's easier.

Found what I think are some passable things in my closet, washing 'em now for ironing and checking. Black trousers and black shirt should be fine, and black sneakers.
 
Well, we arent talking about anti-vaxxers. I posted a research paper.

I understand, my point is these labels are often thrown around whenever people want to get rid of inconvenient complexity. Specially those who moralized the issue earlier and pretended to have definite unquestionable opinions, and anybody who differs is dumb and murderous.
 
I understand, my point is these labels are often thrown around whenever people want to get rid of inconvenient complexity. Specially those who moralized the issue earlier and pretended to have definite unquestionable opinions, and anybody who differs is dumb and murderous.

Exactly.
 
Also, all the staff who worked on these vaccines know about them actually being poisoned but are in on it and want that to happen. Because they...um...want the human race to die out, or at least the ones who feel a vaccine is needed.

It's funny how 'motive' never enters consideration for conspiracy theorists.
Why do we have to generalize and label? And why does it have to do with "trying to kill people intentionally" as a motive?
You basically took one narrative/theory and applied to everyone and everything.
Not everyone is a conspiracy theorist, not all have the same explanation, not all come from the same mindset.
Products are made, they have components, these components have some positive usefulness, some of which may also have some negatives of which some unexpected, some unspotted, some intentionally or unintentionally underevaluated, sometimes they arent observable enough to decide their cancellation if you can run away with it. At the end everything is calculated as a profitability analysis calculated in terms of probability

When there is money involved you sometimes get extremes and it doesnt require some kind of crazy conspiracy.
Such was the case with Boeing 737 Max 8 where they spotted a lot of risks in the design and they were trying to mislead aviation regulators to release the plane.
https://transportation.house.gov/ne...ios-statement-on-newly-released-boeing-emails

Or how Tobacco companies were hiding dangerous compounds in cigarrettes from public
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/big-tobacco-kept-cancer-risk-in-cigarettes-secret-study/

Or how Coca Cola is involved with violent anti-union activities in Latin America which they run away with due to corruption
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2003/jul/24/marketingandpr.colombia

Or how GM knew about a life threatening flaw in their pickup tracks for years which they deliberately ignored:
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/17/...or-years-of-risk-in-pickup-trucks-design.html

Or the oil and natural gas companies knowing the high probability of destroying marine habitat and the high risk of oil spill yet they do it because the profitability is high enough to not give a single damn.

The list is huge and none of it involves "intentionally aiming to kill people".

You dont need a crazy conspiracy theory about the illuminatti trying to capture the world. Sometimes reality is much grounded and yet still uncomfortable.
 
But this guy posting videos was a crazy conspiracy theorist whose theories don't make any logical sense. I get that some are suspicious about the mRNA vaccines because they are new technology, but some of the claims about them are ludicrous. They also ignore the fact that the pharma companies have been working on the mRNA technology for approximately 40 years so the safety aspects have been worked out and tested long before now. Once rolled out in large quantities, few other issues have arisen, thankfully.

In a similar vein, it seems that they have definitively discovered the reason for the rare clotting events caused by the AZ vaccine (and the J&J to a lesser degree):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59418123

It seems to be an adenovirus-specific issue (so will almost certainly affect the Sputnik vaccines despite claims to the contrary). Let's hope they can find a solution to the problem. Doesn't sound as though it will be easy. Thankfully, we've got plenty of other vaccine types coming through in addition to mRNA which seem to be effective enough. I'd hope that those who doubt the mRNA or adenovirus platforms would be offered an inactivated vaccine so they can get at least some protection against this disease.
 
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/12/a-variant-hunter-on-omicrons-tectonic-shift.html

A Variant Hunter on Omicron’s ‘Tectonic Shift’
By James D. Walsh

When virologist Jeremy Kamil got a look at the Omicron sequence posted to GISAID — an open-source website and global nonprofit that helps scientists share genome sequencing — shortly after the new variant was identified last week, it shocked him. Kamil, a professor of microbiology and immunology at Louisiana State University Health Shreveport, co-authored a study in February identifying seven lineages of the virus that cause COVID-19. He did so by analyzing changes to the virus’s spike protein: the macelike, studded surface of the coronavirus. Intelligencer asked Kamil what it is about Omicron that has virologists gobsmacked and why public-health officials are so concerned.

What was your reaction when you saw the Omicron sequence?

I was just totally shocked. It was like coming home to your front lawn after vacation and someone hasn’t just planted a couple of flowers in the flower bed — they’ve totally remodeled everything. It was a tectonic shift in the antigenic landscape.

How does Omicron compare with other variants you’ve seen over the past year?

This variant has a whole slew of mutations far beyond what has been observed in any other variant we’ve seen. Depending on how you define the receptor-binding domain, there are somewhere between ten and 15 mutations just in the receptor-binding domain alone, which is just outstanding. I think Alpha had something like eight mutations across the spike, and this has over 30 across the spike. So it has a whole lot of changes going on, and that’s a lot of the reason people are concerned. The immune response has been trained against the ancestral spike present in the vaccines, or, if you’ve been infected, your immune response is trained against whatever variant you were infected by, which would be Delta for a lot of people. The only modest silver lining is that Omicron has at least a couple of changes in common with Delta. If someone did develop antibodies from a Delta breakthrough infection or a Delta infection, they may have some cross-protection against Omicron.

How long are we talking about until we know how protected we are?

Public-health authorities are telling us about two weeks. That sounds somewhat realistic because people are basically going to have to print synthetic DNA. What they do first is use these things called pseudo-viruses. They’ll take something called a lentiviral vector, and they’ll use the spike protein of Omicron to pseudotype it so it uses Omicron’s entry machinery instead of the natural HIV entry machinery. They’ll test serum from people who’ve been vaccinated or who have recovered from coronavirus disease, and they’ll look and see how well that neutralizes.

It’s a very valuable experiment to do even though it can be a little bit crude. The best experiments will be with actual Omicron-variant coronavirus. But that has to be grown up, and at biosafety-level-three labs, it’s harder to do that work because there are more precautions and less lab space. Pseudotype experiments can happen at biosafety-level two, which is what most research labs in the U.S. are.

So how concerned should we be about breakthrough infections at this point?

Due to how extensively mutated the spike gene is in this variant, there’s good reason to be concerned about breakthrough infections. We already saw a lot of breakthrough infections with Delta, and you’d expect this critter to be more evasive than Delta. The good news for Delta was that even if there were breakthroughs, we knew that the severity of the infection was usually far less in people who were vaccinated. The reason people are more concerned with Omicron is that we don’t know what the disease is going to look like even in vaccinated people.

I do think there are reasons to be optimistic. Some people are saying, “Hey, we’re back at square one.” That’s not really true. We have mRNA-vaccine platforms. We know that masking works. If you go back to March 2020, there was so much unknown. We were locking down playgrounds. We’re not back there. I think it’s just a sobering moment in which we have to remind ourselves that we’ve never moved through a pandemic of a coronavirus before. There’s nothing certain in human history about this. We know from seasonal coronaviruses that those probably started out as pandemics, but we don’t know for sure what it was like to live through one of those. We don’t know how many waves to expect. There are more human beings on the planet now than there ever were before, which means there are more potential hosts to drive rapid evolution of this virus.

A South African doctor, who was one of the early doctors to suspect a new variant, has described symptoms in patients as “very mild.” Is that anecdotal evidence worth much at this point?

I saw someone tweeted that. I even quote-tweeted it and said something snarky like, “Huge, if true,” but then I took it down because people didn’t realize I wasn’t being serious. It’s way too early to know. These cases, when they emerged in South Africa, they may have been people who had already survived a Beta infection, for instance. Or they may be younger. You don’t know from such small numbers. It would be great if it happens to be true that symptoms are mild.

If you talk to corona virologists, who are the real experts, they’ll tell you a lot of the biology comes down to the spike protein, and this spike is different enough from the ancestral spike that it’s not implausible that the disease characteristics might be different. However, I’d say that the safest thing to do is to presume for the time being that this is identical to Delta or Beta or Gamma or the ancestral Wuhan virus in terms of the danger of being infected by it. It’s something to be concerned about. It’s safe to presume that this is just as bad as getting the virus in 2019 until we have proof otherwise. We shouldn’t panic, but we should be careful. I wouldn’t go to a karaoke lounge right now or even a crowded bar.

...
 
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext
Interpretation
Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext

High COVID-19 vaccination rates were expected to reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in populations by reducing the number of possible sources for transmission and thereby to reduce the burden of COVID-19 disease. Recent data, however, indicate that the epidemiological relevance of COVID-19 vaccinated individuals is increasing. In the UK it was described that secondary attack rates among household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was similar to household contacts exposed to unvaccinated index cases (25% for vaccinated vs 23% for unvaccinated). 12 of 31 infections in fully vaccinated household contacts (39%) arose from fully vaccinated epidemiologically linked index cases. Peak viral load did not differ by vaccination status or variant type [
[1]
]. In Germany, the rate of symptomatic COVID-19 cases among the fully vaccinated (“breakthrough infections”) is reported weekly since 21. July 2021 and was 16.9% at that time among patients of 60 years and older [
[2]
]. This proportion is increasing week by week and was 58.9% on 27. October 2021 (Figure 1) providing clear evidence of the increasing relevance of the fully vaccinated as a possible source of transmission. A similar situation was described for the UK. Between week 39 and 42, a total of 100.160 COVID-19 cases were reported among citizens of 60 years or older. 89.821 occurred among the fully vaccinated (89.7%), 3.395 among the unvaccinated (3.4%) [
[3]
]. One week before, the COVID-19 case rate per 100.000 was higher among the subgroup of the vaccinated compared to the subgroup of the unvaccinated in all age groups of 30 years or more. In Israel a nosocomial outbreak was reported involving 16 healthcare workers, 23 exposed patients and two family members. The source was a fully vaccinated COVID-19 patient. The vaccination rate was 96.2% among all exposed individuals (151 healthcare workers and 97 patients). Fourteen fully vaccinated patients became severely ill or died, the two unvaccinated patients developed mild disease [
[4]
]. The US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) identifies four of the top five counties with the highest percentage of fully vaccinated population (99.9–84.3%) as “high” transmission counties [
[5]
]. Many decisionmakers assume that the vaccinated can be excluded as a source of transmission. It appears to be grossly negligent to ignore the vaccinated population as a possible and relevant source of transmission when deciding about public health control measures.

 
The mystery of where omicron came from — and why it matters

...
NPR spoke with two scientists in the thick of this research. Trevor Bedford is a computational virologist and professor at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle. Richard Lessells is an infectious disease specialist at the University of KwaZulu-Natal in Durban, South Africa, and part of the team that identified omicron in South Africa and alerted the world. Here's what they have to say.

Omicron's genetic family tree contains a big surprise

One of the key tools that scientists use to puzzle out the origin of a particular coronavirus variant is to look at its genetic code. Just as people who want to find out their ancestry — were their forebears Nordic? Mongol? — can find traces of that lineage in their genes, the virus's genome contains clues.

"It's been very common to use an evolutionary tree — or a family tree — of these SARS-CoV-2 viruses to catch introductions in places like Australia and Taiwan that have not had a lot of local spread," says Bedford. "You can figure out where the importations are coming from by looking at the viral genome and checking, 'Is it close in its sequence characteristics to [strains] that are circulating elsewhere that have been sequenced and shared with the database?' "

Scientists can then see, as they continue to take samples in the new region over time, how each particular strain starts to pick up additional — often benign — mutations step by step until it morphs into a significantly different strain.

But Bedford says that when you look at the family tree for this omicron variant, there's something surprising: "With omicron, your closest sequences are back from mid-2020 — so over a year ago. That is very rare to see."

In other words, while scientists can tell that this variant evolved from a strain that was circulating in mid-2020, in the intervening months there has been no trace of all the intermediate versions that scientists would have expected to find as it morphed into its current form.

"It doesn't tie into anything that was circulating more recently," says Bedford." Yet its mutations put it a long way from that 2020 strain.

How to explain this?


Hypothesis No. 1: The animal source

It's possible, says Bedford, that the mid-2020 strain infected some unknown animal population, evolved as it spread among that population and has just recently spilled back over into humans.

But Bedford thinks that this hypothesis is unlikely to prove true.
"This is getting technical," he says. But the gist is that you'd expect to see signs of the animal's genetic material in the genome, and instead there's an insertion of human RNA "that suggests that along [omicron's evolutionary] branch, it was evolving in a human."

Hypothesis No. 2: "Cryptic spread" in an unmonitored region

Another possibility, says Bedford, is that the mid-2020 strain started circulating in a location where there hasn't been a lot of monitoring — "perhaps somewhere in southern Africa." That would have enabled the virus to evolve under the radar all this time. "And eventually, by the time you get to 2021, it's picked up enough mutations that it has become [much more] transmissible and then kind of explodes onto the scene at that point," says Bedford.

But he also finds this scenario — which scientists sometimes refer to as "cryptic spread" — hard to believe. "Because it would seem that as [this strain of the virus] was on its path to becoming omicron and becoming a quite transmissible virus, [the earlier versions] would have started to spread more widely before just now." And at that point, those earlier strains would have been noticed in countries that do have robust surveillance systems.

Lessells agrees. On the one hand, he notes, there certainly are countries in Africa where there has not been much ongoing sampling of the coronavirus. Indeed, he says, earlier in the coronavirus pandemic, South Africa's labs picked up a variant that hadn't been seen before through testing a traveler from Tanzania, one of several sub-Saharan African countries "where they weren't measuring the epidemic very well."

"Now," he adds, "that variant, to our knowledge, never really took off in any area. And we still don't know to what extent that was circulating in Tanzania and what the significance of it was." But he says the episode — and others like it — illustrate that once a variant reaches South Africa, at least, it is least likely to get identified. "We have seven [genomic] sequencing hubs that are each connected to the public and private diagnostic labs across the country," he says.

Also, omicron in particular triggers a notable signature in the PCR tests that are being conducted on a routine basis to confirm infections. This warning flag, in fact, is what spurred a private lab to send the samples to Lessells and his colleagues, who, upon sequencing them, discovered the omicron variant. "If you've got representative sequencing and frequent sequencing, and if you can be nimble enough to respond to what you're observing in the cases in the diagnostic lab, then you can pick up these variants that are at a relatively early stage," he says. "So you'd have to have a pretty big blind spot to be missing something that's really evolving over a period of months."

Hypothesis No. 3: Incubation in an immunocompromised person

There is, however, one place the virus could have been hiding while it evolved into omicron that probably would have been in health officials' blind spot: inside the body of a single person. Specifically, a person whose immune system was suppressed — for example, as a result of an untreated HIV infection. In such instances, explains Bedford, the person's immune system is still strong enough to prevent the coronavirus from killing the person. But it's not strong enough to completely clear the virus. So the virus lingers inside the person for month after month, continually reproducing. With each replication, there's a chance it will acquire a mutation that makes it better at evading the person's antibody-producing immune cells.

"It creates this kind of cat-and-mouse game where the immune response is chasing and the virus is running," says Bedford. "And so over the course of the year, if you look in these individuals, you see, at the end of that time, generally a quite evolved virus."

Lessells is one of several researchers to have demonstrated this phenomenon by retroactively analyzing a series of coronavirus samples that had been taken over a period of about six months from a woman who had HIV. Through an unfortunate series of unintended mishaps in her medical care, it later transpired that she was not being properly treated for her HIV infection during that time — even as she was enrolled in a larger study for which samples were being taken of the coronavirus that she harbored.

"Because we had samples from a few different time points over that six-month period," says Lessells, "we could show how the virus evolved and variants with some of the same mutations as the variants of concern appeared over time in the samples."

If this is how omicron was created, then presumably it wasn't until fairly recently that the virus finally spread into others from the person who was incubating it.

Why wouldn't this spread have happened at earlier points during omicron's evolution in the immunocompromised individual's body?

"That's a good question and a legitimate one," says Bedford. "I don't have an obvious answer besides chance." Still, like Lessells, he currently considers this scenario the most plausible explanation for omicron's emergence.

Why knowing omicron's source matters

Both scientists stressed that the scientific investigation of omicron is happening in real time, with new information coming out so fast that their views on its origins could change.

Still, in the short run, says Bedford, making educated guesses as to omicron's source can help scientists assess the potential threat from the variant. For instance, he says, if omicron had been evolving out of sight in a large population of humans over a period of months, this suggests it's actually not that transmissible. After all, he says, "we've still only seen a handful of these travel cases [arriving in various countries]. So that would suggest that it hasn't been spreading really rapidly — that it's taken a little while to ramp up to this level."

But, he says, if omicron evolved in one person's body and only recently spread to a wider population, this means the level of circulation that is now being detected — or as Bedford puts it, "the time frame for getting to where we are now, where we're starting to pick up cases in travelers'' — was reached over a much shorter period. And this would suggest that the variant is much more transmissible.


The larger takeaway: Ramp up HIV treatment

Regardless of the origins of omicron, Bedford and Lessells say its emergence is one more reminder that dangerous future variants could be created by the mutation of the virus in an immunocompromised person. This is especially urgent when it comes to the millions of people in southern Africa who have HIV and are not on medication. The point is not to blame or stigmatize people in this situation, they say, but rather to recognize that helping them is a key to ending the coronavirus pandemic. As Lessells puts it: "The intervention here is clear. We just need to strengthen our HIV response and get as many people as we possibly can onto effective treatment regimens."
 
In a similar vein, it seems that they have definitively discovered the reason for the rare clotting events caused by the AZ vaccine (and the J&J to a lesser degree):

It seems to be an adenovirus-specific issue (so will almost certainly affect the Sputnik vaccines despite claims to the contrary). Let's hope they can find a solution to the problem.
Don't inject into a blood vessel; aspirate the needle to ensure you are injecting into muscle.
 
Don't inject into a blood vessel; aspirate the needle to ensure you are injecting into muscle.

That's what John Campbell thinks. I'm not so enamoured with him since he lost his shit and started promoting Ivermectin so much, going as far as claiming it is more effective than the new Pfizer drug. He's a former nurse with a PhD in teaching who has some medical understanding but when it comes to the statistical analysis of preprint papers, he's lost. Provided some useful analysis earlier in the pandemic but he's flailing now.
 
It does seem to key in on the idea that it incubated in a immunocompromised person, and to be honest I was expecting some mention of a lab somewhere so I was kind of impressed with the analysis.

Mutation in an immunocompromised patient has already been observed during this pandemic:

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news...2-mutations-emerging-during-chronic-infection

A peculiar situation where modern medical science can stop people dying of things that would previously have killed them more quickly, yet the patient provides an effective incubator for the virus to mutate!

What's the alternative, though? You can't let sick people die for the sake of it.

I reckon it might well lead to thr situation where the pandemic lasts longer than it might have done in the days when our scientific knowledge wasn't as advanced. Will hopefully lead to fewer deaths overall, however.
 
Not looking good as regards transmission:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...gest-outside-s-africa-authorities-2021-12-03/

75% attack rate among double-vaccinated people in a Norwegian restaurant. The genie is very much out of the bottle with Omicron as it isn't going to take too many super-spreader events like this to make case levels go stratospheric.

We'll just have to hope that illness in those vaccinated is less severe and that unvaccinated children aren't at more risk with Omicron. A few weeks before we'll know for sure, I expect.
 
The genie is very much out of the bottle with Omicron as it isn't going to take too many super-spreader events like this to make case levels go stratospheric.

The second discovered case of Omicron in the US visited a New York City convention that was attended by 53K people. Its so far out of the bottle. The only reason more cases haven't been reported is not enough genetic sequencing has been done to verify which strain the positive tests are from.

The Minnesota man developed "mild symptoms" on November 22, after traveling to the Anime NYC 2021 convention in the city, which hosted 53,000 attendees from November 18 through 20.

"[W]ith this year's growth also comes our biggest challenge. How to be a home for 53,000 fans. In 2019, we welcomed 46,000. This year saw only 7,000 more. But something was different. Everything was packed much, much more," convention founder Peter Tarara said in a statement before news of the Omicron case.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/omicron-variant-covid-cases-rise-united-states/#app
 
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