Coreless Cell

[Crossbar]

Stumbled on this quite old(3/1/2011) article, but I couldn´t find any reference, so here I go.

Sony has developed an improved package for its Cell processor, as described here.

It has some benefits and drawbacks.

I find the cost reduction and improved power characteristics to be most interesting.

Ohde explained that Sony, by applying the coreless packaging technology to Cell processors, “reduced the cost related to packaging by 15 to 20 percent.”

What is even more interesting is this quote, in my opinion.

“We started to use coreless packages in mass-production of Cell processors for PlayStation3 since April 2010 and have shipped more than 3 million units,” Tomoshi Ohde, general manager, advanced LSI assembly product department at Sony’s semiconductor business group, said during a recent one-on-one with EE Times Japan.

I believe that means that this model of Cell has so far not been put into any PS3s that have reached retail. Perhaps there is a new cost-reduced PS3 in the pipe to be introduced this fall?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Good find! Maybe an E3 price reduction? Although IMO the cost savings won't be worth passing on, and Sony will just pocket the saving. At this point, I'll happily wait for other guinea pigs to test is the chips have long-term durability!

 

[hoho]

I find it a bit hard to believe that they started mass-producing them over a year ago and still havent started selling them.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Perhaps crossbar read it like me as this year? You're right - there should be these new chips out there aplenty. 3 million by January or March this year. Though interestingly that's not enough for every PS3, so there must be a mix of conventional and coreless PS3's out there. PS3 is a testbed of this technology.

 

[Rangers]

Kotick said price cuts are "in the works" from MS and Sony. So you can pretty much write it down, though of course the timeline could be anything. Would not be too surprised to see something announced at E3.

 

[kagemaru]

Would be really surprised if there were price cuts at E3. The impact of the price cut would be greater if they announce it late summer or fall time and that's pretty much what they have been doing this gen IIRC.

Great find though. Just got another ps3 a few days ago, wonder if it has one of these chips in it.

 

[assurdum]

Would be really surprised if there were price cuts at E3. The impact of the price cut would be greater if they announce it late summer or fall time and that's pretty much what they have been doing this gen IIRC.

Great find though. Just got another ps3 a few days ago, wonder if it has one of these chips in it.

Call me crazy, but I'd expect another ps3 slim (with lowest manufacturies cost) announces at this E3 at 199$.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Call me crazy, but I'd expect another ps3 slim (with lowest manufacturies cost) announces at this E3 at 199$.

True, we've had two versions of the PS2 Slim. One with an external power supply and another with an internal one.

 

[msia2k75]

The slimest heh. Still wondering if they can manage to build one without any fan in it?

 

[RudeCurve]

People still buy PS2?

 

[Prophecy2k]

Would be really surprised if there were price cuts at E3. The impact of the price cut would be greater if they announce it late summer or fall time and that's pretty much what they have been doing this gen IIRC.

Great find though. Just got another ps3 a few days ago, wonder if it has one of these chips in it.

Agreed... i think with Nintendo's next-gen (or current-gen depending on what it is) console being annouced at E3 i think that will definintely factor into the other two's decision to drop price and by how much. Nintendo most likely won't reveal a price at E3, but later on in the year (or 2012) depending on when they're gunning to launch.

 

[Trejser]

People still buy PS2?

Ha, it sold more than PS3 THIS GEN

 

[kagemaru]

Call me crazy, but I'd expect another ps3 slim (with lowest manufacturies cost) announces at this E3 at 199$.

You're crazy.

I wouldn't expect another ps3 slim, I think they would just use the new chips without really informing the public since most people wouldn't really understand nor care anyways.

A $199 PS3 would be awesome, but again I don't see it announcing at E3.

Agreed... i think with Nintendo's next-gen (or current-gen depending on what it is) console being annouced at E3 i think that will definintely factor into the other two's decision to drop price and by how much. Nintendo most likely won't reveal a price at E3, but later on in the year (or 2012) depending on when they're gunning to launch.

I don't think they'll reveal the price this year at all. I see early next year for Japan and E3 (or later) for the US with Europe soon following.

I expect MS and Sony to drop later this year, August/Septemberish, and dropping again next fall in an attempt to counter any hype or sales the Cafe may have.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I expect another shrink. Sony will want to get PS3 down to PS2slim-type size if they can. That has tremendous coolness factor (perhaps depleted by the tablet vogue these days) and tremendous savings. It's just a matter of the chips getting cool enough, which is all a matter of when the process shrinks get enough gains. Rather disappointing gains this gen, and the fact the PS3 was initially oversized to accommodate the larger-than-anticipated 90nm fabrication because 65nm was offline at launch, means so far we've only had a stop-gap shrink. more PS3lean than PS3Slim

 

[kagemaru]

^ It very well could happen, Sony are magicians when it comes to engineering after all.

 

[Heinrich4]

I expect another shrink.

Perhaps there is some reduction on the way, because since first ps3 "slim" * (cell 45 and 65nm RSX model CECH-20XX almost 2 years) came two others (CECH 21XX and CECH25XX both with cell 45nm and RSX at 40nm) with some changes and maybe BOM have reduced substantially.


* Evolution motherboard ps3

http://www.edepot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1376&sid=5d545e589f680662470947078a358a0a&start=10

 

[AlNom]

It's a shame we don't get to see the die size evolution, for RSX at least. Merging the two would seem problematic with the split memory pool I/O. hmm....

 

[Npl]

It's a shame we don't get to see the die size evolution, for RSX at least. Merging the two would seem problematic with the split memory pool I/O. hmm....

Why would that be? all FlexIO interfaces (some of which are just plain unused on PS3s) would be gone so its not like pincount will double.

 

[NathansFortune]

I expect another shrink. Sony will want to get PS3 down to PS2slim-type size if they can. That has tremendous coolness factor (perhaps depleted by the tablet vogue these days) and tremendous savings. It's just a matter of the chips getting cool enough, which is all a matter of when the process shrinks get enough gains. Rather disappointing gains this gen, and the fact the PS3 was initially oversized to accommodate the larger-than-anticipated 90nm fabrication because 65nm was offline at launch, means so far we've only had a stop-gap shrink. more PS3lean than PS3Slim

Yes, I've always thought that the 2009 model is what Sony wanted to launch in 2006. There is definitely another slim in the pipeline before PS3 is EOL'd. It will be 32nm Cell, 28nm RSX, 2x 1Gbit XDR chips at 32nm, 2x 1Gbit GDDR3 at 28nm, and 20GB NAND with an empty 2.5" HDD slot for people who want to upgrade. If Sony really want to monetise they could make it 1.8" and team up with Toshiba to sell standard 1.8" drives with PlayStation branding and a tidy markup.

That would be the final stage of PS3 cost-cutting, and it will give Sony access to the $149/129/99 market for times after PS4 launches.

 

[Boxercide]

Yes, I've always thought that the 2009 model is what Sony wanted to launch in 2006. There is definitely another slim in the pipeline before PS3 is EOL'd. It will be 32nm Cell, 28nm RSX, 2x 1Gbit XDR chips at 32nm, 2x 1Gbit GDDR3 at 28nm, and 20GB NAND with an empty 2.5" HDD slot for people who want to upgrade. If Sony really want to monetise they could make it 1.8" and team up with Toshiba to sell standard 1.8" drives with PlayStation branding and a tidy markup.

That would be the final stage of PS3 cost-cutting, and it will give Sony access to the $149/129/99 market for times after PS4 launches.

You will never see a PS3 without dedicated HDD. Lots of games have a mandatory install.

EDIT: I overlooked on original reading your NAND storage. However, I still stand by my original assessment that you will never see a PS3 without a built in HDD. You are overlooking their strategy of pushing media (movies.TV shows/music) and decent size HDDs are dirt cheap. Especially in bulk for a corporation like Sony.